beccaelizabeth: Tony Stark, Iron Man, face with HUD lights (Tony HUD)
[personal profile] beccaelizabeth
Today Sunday was swapped out for See Movie With Subtitles
yes
SUBTITLES
:-D
... yeah I maybe look overenthusiastic about that, but, it is a new movie, and the subtitles are on at a time of day I can get to, and it isn't even the only subbed showing this week.
*basks in the awesome*

... actually when is the other one? is tempting to go back...

So, I liked Civil War. And it would be really, really easy for me to not like Civil War, because see icon for whose side I'm usually on. But having seen the movie, I am actually mad at Tony, but not mad at the writers for what they did with Tony. Which is a tough balance. They did it plausibly. I'm disappointed in Tony, but I see what they did, and it worked.

I'm not best pleased with Steve either though.

And I did like the plot, I liked where the story went, which characters did what.

The gender balance is still ridiculous. I mean if you've got less than parity it's bad, but the more people they put on screen, the more they filter for which characters they want to still have around, the fewer women there are. That is unacceptable and I'm proper fed up of it.

I think they did okay by black men, in a movie with three superhero black men, but if the only speaking black woman in the movie had a name I did not learn it. Not cool. And having said they did okay, read a spoilers if you're worried: Rhodey lived, which I was concerned about because trailers, but he has some permanent disability to live with. Which I think works well with the whole War Machine context, like, now he needs the machine? Tony had a different angle on similar, though his seemed less limiting day to day. And now there's a superhero with a disability. But if they're going to just un War Machine him then nope, nope, no. Reading it as superhero with disability, it was a tense movie moment that had consequences. But if that's his exit then I'm going to be mad at people in two ways, race and disability, and that's a thing.
Falcon and Black Panther got through in one piece though, so yaays.
... I have watched Agents of SHIELD and given up because deadbro, I have no trust for Marvel on this front.

There was a lot of stuff in this movie and honestly I could have lived with there being much less characters, but I think they juggled them pretty well. There were several characters with an emotional arc driving the story, there were several with emotional arcs that nudged the story around, there were some that turned up to fight but still had a personality and some interpersonal stuff going on while they did that. Nobody was wasted.

Also it managed to be very funny at appropriate times and super tense at other times. I held my breath at one point, I just, like, forgot to breathe until we saw how that worked out. And yet, other times, much laughing.


SPOILER goes under the cut, where I start going on about actual plot and details and stuff, plenty SPOILERS here :


I'm interested in the Accords as presented here. Because the particular bastard presenting them makes them super sketch, and they seem impractical, so I don't know how they're meant to work. The battle for New York lasted tens of minutes, start to finish. Avengers respond at combat speeds to threats no one else is ready for or can get ready for that quickly. So saying there shall now be a committee, and the Avengers only go when they're told, that's... that's not going to work. Aliens arrive, we all die, while everyone tries to find that one member in the bathroom. And saying the Avengers have to go when they're told is basically drafting them, which is a bit not good. But that was a really thick wodge of paper for a rule summed up as something that simple, so I'm interested in how they would make it work. Is there a workable version?

I felt kind of like this movie was having an argument with me personally. Obviously not, nobody reads my journal as could make that happen, but in the themes and specifics it's answering things I've said here.

Because I've been saying for years they should do like the Justice League do and be a United Nations sanctioned peacekeeping force. And also that they should be more Justice and less Avenge. And lo, we have a movie where the UN say they're the boss of them now, and the whole vengeance thing is addressed really pretty directly.

Except what the Accords sounded like was not oversight or a set of rules for the Avengers to work within, it was... being put in a box, to be taken out when the UN as a whole can agree to it. Which, you know, not practical.

Yet they absolutely need oversight. Or they're setting themselves up as above the law. Because the word for citizens that go around beating crap out of other citizens doesn't even need to be as specific as vigilante, it's just criminal. They could argue some variation on self defence, probably, but. They should at least acknowledge that they need to argue that defence sometimes.

The bit where they brought Bucky in and Steve asked for his lawyer and the CIA guy sort of laughed at him? That's why the Accords don't work. Because there is no rule of law, if that doesn't work.

... do I need to mention real world politics? Because there is real world politics. It's... a thing.

I've said before that Civil War done right is Team Freedom vs Team Accountability, and it's obvious which side Tony has to be on. See first press conference. He's so very aware of his own mistakes, always, he's team accountability.

But Steve here made more sense than in the comics, because it wasn't about just having his name on a list, it was about having to agree to stand down even when he thinks he can do something to help. And they gave Peggy that quote I've seen around about planting yourself and saying no, you move. Well, Sharon at Peggy's funeral. Different levels of speechmaking, different conflict, makes much more sense.

And it was good because Spiderman was on Team Tony but had said pretty much the same things as Steve... without echoing With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility. Because that phrase can be read different ways. This time Spider-Man said that being able to do the things they do, if they don't do them and someone gets hurt, that's on them. And that was more directly to Steve's point, and countered the emotional thing Tony had going on where someone had given him a photo of a dead teenager and blamed him for doing a thing. Because he made Ultron because he felt he had to, because he could do more. But there's this kid saying the same thing that lead to that. And then following Tony into a fight.

And this, incidentally, is where I am super mad at Tony. ... in character, I still mean, because I can buy he'd do this, he was the boy genius and I think his grasp of the concept 'child' is a bit special. He went and got a high school student and asked him to fight the most dangerous people on Earth. And sure, he could give him better gear, and the kid was fighting already, but seriously? Seriously? Wow, no. Child soldiers are epic level nope. And they don't specify an age in numbers, so maybe he's 18 but still in school... but they keep on saying how young he is, so I got the impression he's going to be in school for a while. Also, Tony indicated that he did not know his age, so... yeah, no. Mad at Tony.

So is Spider-Man a signatory to the Accords? Probably not. Probably.

But the wider repercussions of those Accords... if the framework is that enhanced individuals have to stay when they're told and go when they're told, that's... a problem. If it's only about people who want to go and hit people for great justice, that's workable, but Ross was particularly snarky about Thor and Hulk not being around. Told Steve if Ross had lost two nukes there'd be repercussions. So in his mind, Thor and Hulk are weapons, not free willed beings, and the fact that they're not sitting on their hands in a monitored space is somehow a problem. And that's why it's Ross being the politician here. Because we know he's an arsehole on this point.

So superheroes need someone watching them, same like police, same like army. Need rules and framework and someone who can say no. But this? This was not unambiguously the way. So there was a lot of swapping sides, because this is one big grey area.

Riiiight up until the final fight. At which point Tony is clearly and unambiguously in the wrong. But plausibly. Pretty much. Just, you know, trying to kill someone because they killed your mum? Vengeance. A big problem. And so T'Challa figured out, about his dad, so he gets to be the better man there.

It's very Drama that this is supposed to have been secret up until that moment. Steve and Natasha knew HYDRA did it, the decrypted HYDRA files knew, and isn't Tony the man most likely to break encryptions? So it's secret just so it can go boom at the right moment.

But it set it up real good why boom would be the result.



I do not like what they've done with Pepper. For fanfic purposes maybe Tony was lying, I could spin a story about how Pepper is on a secret mission and Tony is keeping her safe from the Accords, but by what we've seen they've just decided she can't take the danger and shuffled her off without so much as a last conversation. Which is bullshit. She is Rescue. She can take it. But it demonstrates Marvel's priorities, that somehow Pepper is not important so they can just... leave her out, to motivate a man. Tony suggesting that the Accords were his way of trying to find a balance with Pepper actually irritated me, because what? And also, how was that meant to be persuasive, why did that belong in that scene with his motives there, I don't remember.


I am super tired and I forgot to eat today. I mean, I bought food, but then there was a movie, and the food went all soggy in the bag instead of being eated, and then it was three hours later and it went straight in the bin. So my brain just sort of ground to a halt just there.

I'm too tired to squee... but I'm not sure it's a squee sort of film. I'm mostly thoughtful.



Oh, one other thing I bought today? They had Civil War cups. With a teeny tiny Black Widow figure on teh top.
... so yeah, I bought another Black Widow, for £2
but you can buy the cup without the drink
so I have a nice clean cup.

And a tiny Natasha.

*puts her carefully where I can see her*

*grins*




I will very probably write more about this film later, but that's it for now.
Need food.

Date: 2016-05-02 08:42 pm (UTC)
londonkds: (Press (1) for a airstrike (by Daisy))
From: [personal profile] londonkds
It's pretty clear that the majority of the Avengers' actions are not unexpected emergencies with existential threats to the whole of human civilisation. The action in Lagos at the start of the film was clearly because they'd been tipped off in advance, or had found out by espionage, about Crossbones' intended robbery of the virology lab and had planned an intervention. Without, apparently, tipping off the Lagos authorities at all, either because they thought that as a developing country they'd be too poorly equipped and trained to handle it (unlikely given that this wasn't even a supervillain with powers, but a criminal gang with military training and small arms) or that as a developing country the authorities would be corrupt and possibly in on it. Either possibility is patronising as f*** and tends to show why they need some accountability and oversight. The attack on the HYDRA base at the start of Age of Ultron also looks like a planned pre-emptive strike rather than an emergency response.

So yeah, the Sokovia Accords probably would include some kind of procedure for "catastrophic emergency threat needing a response time measured in minutes" and penalties for invoking it in bad faith just because the Avengers don't want to justify themselves. And those 400-odd pages probably included a lot of discussion of the spectrum between that and "purely voluntary pre-emptive strike against international criminals/terrorists/supervillains hiding out somewhere".

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beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
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