beccaelizabeth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccaelizabeth) wrote2015-04-04 06:11 am
beccaelizabeth) wrote2015-04-04 06:11 am
Avengers and physics
I just rewatched Avengers Assemble, this time giving myself permission to back it up a few seconds whenever and as often as I wanted. I think I don't actually watch the MCU that often. It has its good points, but it also has some very long fight sequences that could be avoided by certain grown men acting their ages, so, you know, fanfic.
Also, I am very much looking forward to Hawkeye being a character in the next one. Thus far we know what he can do, but who he is is just... we get next to nothing. Which may well be why he and Coulson were so popular to write, damn near a blank page with some comics influences if we feel the need, but it is frustrating.
What he can do is spectacular though.
In the first fight with Loki it takes all of 30 seconds for Loki to take everyone down, and then he grabs Clint as the first one to try and get back up again. Heart. But in those 30 seconds Clint is also the only one to dodge Loki's staff blasts, first knocking Fury out the way, then shooting with his sidearm, then diving out the way again as two behind him get hit. He anticipates better than anyone else in the room. Same thing later, different scales.
The shot to take out the helicarrier engine wasn't aimed straight into the whizzy rotors, it curved way the hell around and had to account for air currents, and then hit where the debris could do the damage and stop the thing. Hell of a lot of understanding of weak spots, to get that right.
Then there's the control room, and a very awkward angle, but comments I've seen about miraculously getting the USB in right way up first time are a little more praise than necessary: they've got these weird hexagonal arrangements of round holes, resembling nothing else I've seen. I think it plain electric arrowed the console? Don't know, comics science.
The fight with Natasha is awesome, he's got some moves and as Renner points out in interviews he uses the bow to hit people with too. He still gets kicked in the head, but it is Black Widow, the fact that there even is a fight when she'd got that close to him already is in fact impressive.
And then they fly the plane, plane gets hit, they all get out in one piece.
The fight in the street when Cap tells them to hold them off ... it is not subtle about being really clear he's a good guy now, since he gets a car tire halo for 'it would be my genuine pleasure', and then he saves a bus full of children.
But he's fighting smarter than the arrow jokes give him credit for, each arrow takes out multiple opponents, he's playing 3D dominos with alien soldiers, their vehicles, and their weapons.
Also there's electric zaps and explosions and that super heating arrow that wasn't exactly a kaboom. Versatile.
But the thing I noted, in gifs and in the rewatch, is that once again he's dodging more successfully than anyone, anticipating, seeing a pattern and using it. He runs, slides, turns, shoots, and all the time enemy energy blasts are all around him, but he does not get hit. He uses the bow at weird angles, and doesn't always bother looking where he's shooting, already on to the next thing. And he can call patterns for Stark et al, notice how they corner, all that stuff.
So what he's doing is holding a hell of a lot of trajectories in his head at once and understanding how to move himself through them and influence them to his own ends. At all times, at battle speeds.
I've seen the critiques of his bowmanship, his form being weird, and that's fair as far as it goes, but he's arguably doing the same thing with his bow and arrow as he's doing with every other trajectory in the area: understanding them and then putting in the force that'll turn them where he needs them. It's not as simple as conveyed by the word shooting, and it gets a lot more done than the arrow count might suggest.
He's also smart, observant, puts things together about the science that are obvious once he's said them but seemed to be a surprise to Fury. 'Not from this side' is weird phrasing unless he assumes everyone else knows already, and indeed it does seem odd to need to clarify that doors open both ways. But then everyone else is thinking of it as a battery pack or a weapon in progress, so, he sees better from a distance.
Still, we get more actual characterisation from a few seconds in Thor, because wanting to stick an arrow in an enemy is pretty generic so 'I'm starting to root for this guy' is the most personal opinion we hear out of him.
I also watched for Coulson again, and the way he's established, contacting most everyone, it felt kind of like I could see the cogs the writers were putting in there, note the lever being installed, so we feel it when they pull it. That said, he's good at being an ordinary guy reacting to extraordinary things. When Pepper points out he seems upset it's hard to see what she means, but there are actual feelings going on, including around 'Barton's been compromised', much to the shipper's relief. But then there's a lot more feeling in his every interaction with Steve, it's just that feeling is 'awkward goof'. And fanfic made this characterisation of him where he's impossible to read and has the best poker face and doesn't react to anything, but then in Agent's of SHIELD he's ... more to the Steve side of expressive. So I don't know.
I also don't know how anyone can watch this and be a Loki apologist/fan. I mean, liking him as a villain, yes, fine, but liking him the way that adds him to all their Avengers fic and loves him and hugs him and seems to think he's so misunderstood... no, nope, no. I've read theories where he's mind controlled throughout, and then gets woke up when Hulk beats crap out of him, and that's... fanfic could argue that, but there's no actual visuals to suggest that the way there are on Clint and Selvig. Loki's eyes just look like eyes, the other two look seriously unnatural until they break the control. Which, for Barton, is not the first time his head gets hit and he goes 'Natasha?', he still looks weird in the eyes then, so then she knocks him out, and only then his eyes go back to normal. Probably around the time the weird colours thing in the room wears off. So no, I don't think we can read this as Loki being controlled, though we absolutely can read this as Loki being so far over his head he can't see which way is up. All those speeches about how happy you'll be with no control, those can be read as him preaching the gospel he's already converted to. He might not be mind controlled, but this weren't solely his plan. In fact his presence probably simpled things up rather: Cap wanted him kept alive and well to keep the fight focused, rather than having the enemy spread out way past the defences. That's because for Loki everything is a personal ego thing. But he weren't real consistent about where he stood about his own identity: he keeps saying he's rightful king of Asgard and no son of Odin. He's kind of screwed in the head.
I kept on pausing to stare at Stark Tower. I can't tell if they meant the construction around the top of the recogniseable remains of the Met Life building to be that being torn down, revealing the new shape inside, or if the Stark Tower sweeps out from the top of it. And I can't figure out the heights, not relative nor absolute, because I have no sense of scale for buildings like New York has. My town doesn't get past three stories, and that on the high street. Norwich has maaaaaaybe four tall buildings in it. Nothing in my experience to compare the things to. I've walked through bits of London, briefly, but if any of it was super tall I was too busy getting to the next train place to notice. So, pausing and trying to understand New York architecture, not terribly helpful to me.
Stark falls from his deck down 21 seconds, between going through the glass at 1:37:31 and 1:37:52 , when the visor flips down and he can hit the brakes. Maybe one more second to get in position. But probably 20, 21 seconds of falling.
That's pretty much the data I needed in order to write daring rescue attempts, catching team mates when they fall, that kind of thing. They've got 21 seconds if they can brake as hard as the Iron Man suit, and given how it supports every place, they probably can't.
But I also would like to know how high up he has to start for that to work out that way. There's probably math, I just don't... math. I can find simplified data about terminal velocity, but it takes time to get that fast and is more relevant from planes. Also apparently it varies greatly depending how you fall. So it wouldn't be simple math, anyway.
but just: Stark Tower. How tall is that meant to be?
And did Tony just build it up until it's a local record?
So, things I noticed this time: trajectories and falling. Clint is good at both. And those were probably the longest 21 seconds of Tony's life up to that time, but not the longest of that day.
(Also, when it says 'mark' on how long before the boom, it actually meant it. yaay movie timing.)
Also, I am very much looking forward to Hawkeye being a character in the next one. Thus far we know what he can do, but who he is is just... we get next to nothing. Which may well be why he and Coulson were so popular to write, damn near a blank page with some comics influences if we feel the need, but it is frustrating.
What he can do is spectacular though.
In the first fight with Loki it takes all of 30 seconds for Loki to take everyone down, and then he grabs Clint as the first one to try and get back up again. Heart. But in those 30 seconds Clint is also the only one to dodge Loki's staff blasts, first knocking Fury out the way, then shooting with his sidearm, then diving out the way again as two behind him get hit. He anticipates better than anyone else in the room. Same thing later, different scales.
The shot to take out the helicarrier engine wasn't aimed straight into the whizzy rotors, it curved way the hell around and had to account for air currents, and then hit where the debris could do the damage and stop the thing. Hell of a lot of understanding of weak spots, to get that right.
Then there's the control room, and a very awkward angle, but comments I've seen about miraculously getting the USB in right way up first time are a little more praise than necessary: they've got these weird hexagonal arrangements of round holes, resembling nothing else I've seen. I think it plain electric arrowed the console? Don't know, comics science.
The fight with Natasha is awesome, he's got some moves and as Renner points out in interviews he uses the bow to hit people with too. He still gets kicked in the head, but it is Black Widow, the fact that there even is a fight when she'd got that close to him already is in fact impressive.
And then they fly the plane, plane gets hit, they all get out in one piece.
The fight in the street when Cap tells them to hold them off ... it is not subtle about being really clear he's a good guy now, since he gets a car tire halo for 'it would be my genuine pleasure', and then he saves a bus full of children.
But he's fighting smarter than the arrow jokes give him credit for, each arrow takes out multiple opponents, he's playing 3D dominos with alien soldiers, their vehicles, and their weapons.
Also there's electric zaps and explosions and that super heating arrow that wasn't exactly a kaboom. Versatile.
But the thing I noted, in gifs and in the rewatch, is that once again he's dodging more successfully than anyone, anticipating, seeing a pattern and using it. He runs, slides, turns, shoots, and all the time enemy energy blasts are all around him, but he does not get hit. He uses the bow at weird angles, and doesn't always bother looking where he's shooting, already on to the next thing. And he can call patterns for Stark et al, notice how they corner, all that stuff.
So what he's doing is holding a hell of a lot of trajectories in his head at once and understanding how to move himself through them and influence them to his own ends. At all times, at battle speeds.
I've seen the critiques of his bowmanship, his form being weird, and that's fair as far as it goes, but he's arguably doing the same thing with his bow and arrow as he's doing with every other trajectory in the area: understanding them and then putting in the force that'll turn them where he needs them. It's not as simple as conveyed by the word shooting, and it gets a lot more done than the arrow count might suggest.
He's also smart, observant, puts things together about the science that are obvious once he's said them but seemed to be a surprise to Fury. 'Not from this side' is weird phrasing unless he assumes everyone else knows already, and indeed it does seem odd to need to clarify that doors open both ways. But then everyone else is thinking of it as a battery pack or a weapon in progress, so, he sees better from a distance.
Still, we get more actual characterisation from a few seconds in Thor, because wanting to stick an arrow in an enemy is pretty generic so 'I'm starting to root for this guy' is the most personal opinion we hear out of him.
I also watched for Coulson again, and the way he's established, contacting most everyone, it felt kind of like I could see the cogs the writers were putting in there, note the lever being installed, so we feel it when they pull it. That said, he's good at being an ordinary guy reacting to extraordinary things. When Pepper points out he seems upset it's hard to see what she means, but there are actual feelings going on, including around 'Barton's been compromised', much to the shipper's relief. But then there's a lot more feeling in his every interaction with Steve, it's just that feeling is 'awkward goof'. And fanfic made this characterisation of him where he's impossible to read and has the best poker face and doesn't react to anything, but then in Agent's of SHIELD he's ... more to the Steve side of expressive. So I don't know.
I also don't know how anyone can watch this and be a Loki apologist/fan. I mean, liking him as a villain, yes, fine, but liking him the way that adds him to all their Avengers fic and loves him and hugs him and seems to think he's so misunderstood... no, nope, no. I've read theories where he's mind controlled throughout, and then gets woke up when Hulk beats crap out of him, and that's... fanfic could argue that, but there's no actual visuals to suggest that the way there are on Clint and Selvig. Loki's eyes just look like eyes, the other two look seriously unnatural until they break the control. Which, for Barton, is not the first time his head gets hit and he goes 'Natasha?', he still looks weird in the eyes then, so then she knocks him out, and only then his eyes go back to normal. Probably around the time the weird colours thing in the room wears off. So no, I don't think we can read this as Loki being controlled, though we absolutely can read this as Loki being so far over his head he can't see which way is up. All those speeches about how happy you'll be with no control, those can be read as him preaching the gospel he's already converted to. He might not be mind controlled, but this weren't solely his plan. In fact his presence probably simpled things up rather: Cap wanted him kept alive and well to keep the fight focused, rather than having the enemy spread out way past the defences. That's because for Loki everything is a personal ego thing. But he weren't real consistent about where he stood about his own identity: he keeps saying he's rightful king of Asgard and no son of Odin. He's kind of screwed in the head.
I kept on pausing to stare at Stark Tower. I can't tell if they meant the construction around the top of the recogniseable remains of the Met Life building to be that being torn down, revealing the new shape inside, or if the Stark Tower sweeps out from the top of it. And I can't figure out the heights, not relative nor absolute, because I have no sense of scale for buildings like New York has. My town doesn't get past three stories, and that on the high street. Norwich has maaaaaaybe four tall buildings in it. Nothing in my experience to compare the things to. I've walked through bits of London, briefly, but if any of it was super tall I was too busy getting to the next train place to notice. So, pausing and trying to understand New York architecture, not terribly helpful to me.
Stark falls from his deck down 21 seconds, between going through the glass at 1:37:31 and 1:37:52 , when the visor flips down and he can hit the brakes. Maybe one more second to get in position. But probably 20, 21 seconds of falling.
That's pretty much the data I needed in order to write daring rescue attempts, catching team mates when they fall, that kind of thing. They've got 21 seconds if they can brake as hard as the Iron Man suit, and given how it supports every place, they probably can't.
But I also would like to know how high up he has to start for that to work out that way. There's probably math, I just don't... math. I can find simplified data about terminal velocity, but it takes time to get that fast and is more relevant from planes. Also apparently it varies greatly depending how you fall. So it wouldn't be simple math, anyway.
but just: Stark Tower. How tall is that meant to be?
And did Tony just build it up until it's a local record?
So, things I noticed this time: trajectories and falling. Clint is good at both. And those were probably the longest 21 seconds of Tony's life up to that time, but not the longest of that day.
(Also, when it says 'mark' on how long before the boom, it actually meant it. yaay movie timing.)