beccaelizabeth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccaelizabeth) wrote2015-05-04 11:48 am
beccaelizabeth) wrote2015-05-04 11:48 am
Best Age of Ultron recap is best
http://skygiants.dreamwidth.org/407161.html
Spoilers and more spoilers obviously, but just the right snark about just the right things.
Because yes, the most frustrating thing is the way Marvel as a whole has ducked out of dealing with the implications of Winter Soldier and gone back to HYDRA being That Lot Over There with the foreign bases, and the solution to SHIELD being more SHIELD only different, and at the very best reading endlessly deferring having an actual conversation about this.
But there was a stack of other frustrating too.
Also, SPOILERS I've not mentioned yet: it is possible that it is only my mum who was confused, and she was confused by how many sets of siblings there were in this movie cause she thought there were more than I thought, but you know the beginning when Thor was looking for the sceptre so he could bring it home? You know if he'd brought it home, then he'd have delivered it to 'Odin'? Who as of the end of the previous Thor film was Loki pulling his best prank ever? And that at the end of the movie Thanos had the Infinity Gauntlet straight out of Asgard's vaults? And that Thanos gave the mind gem to Loki before The Avengers movie, and therefore had control of it up until then, and Loki turned up smelling of crazy and espousing the doctrine of freedom from freedom? I did rewatch before seeing Ultron and didn't see Loki's eyes being especially blue compared to say Clint or Selvig, but we don't even know what Loki's wearing most of the time, he's definitely wearing illusions, his eyes could be any colour. But I'm thinking that Loki as an ongoing agent of Thanos, possibly because Mind Gem, is a viable reading. And I'm quite sure Loki wanted his mind gem sceptre back.
I'm not sure if the blue bit was a mind in the Mind Gem or around it. Everything we've seen about the infinity stones says that mortals or living beings touching them goes very poorly for them very quickly, but objects can touch them just fine. So building an artificial mind to be the one that actually wields a gem seems clever, and given Vision, clearly works. So the sceptre was itself a being with a mind? Maybe? and handing it to Loki then gets... complex, since it's quite possibly the organ grinder.
... I dislike these interpretations because Loki clearly did a hell of a lot of bad things and I don't want it to get waved away with mind control.
But there's more players than the Avengers have seen, and Thanos made most things happen, yesno?
But if Thor had just taken the stick home, sure we wouldn't have Ultron, but we would have given the Mind Gem to Loki and very probably Thanos, and that would be, you know, a bad thing.
Also, when Tony made Vision as a solution to Ultron, he was pouring JARVIS mind into the new body. That's like relying on friends and family instead of trying to make a newer angrier version. That's why the 'together' approach worked better, themey reasons.
But as read in comments elsewhere it's also the Engineer approach, if it don't work try again with a different bunch of settings. Ultron was already, what, 77? So as with the suits, optimise, tweak, try again. It's what he does. It's the glory and the tragic flaw of him both. I think I like it.
I don't so much like that I can't tell if the fanon reading of bots as sentient beings he considers family is meant to be in Avengers Age of Ultron. I mean, Ultron as some kind of angry offspring makes his characterisation make sense, but I don't know about the *other* AI. Being treated as slaves is an available reading. Tony as bad dad is just as possible as Tony as trying to be good dad. Either way he works too hard and spends too much time trying to save the world and assuming they'll follow his lead, which hey, Stark.
Basically everything in the MCU is about family. I know it simplifies the empathy, but I'm kind of done with daddy issues, even these generation shift trying to be a daddy issues.
I don't know though, introducing some more moms (who live) might make it interesting again.
... I really do wish we knew anything at all about Laura Barton.
Oh, AND, a thing I meant to say when I started typing that paragraph and got myself lost:
So, the sceptre has the mind gem in, but also possibly is a mind wielding the gem?
I'm not clear on that.
But we do know Vision is an artificial being that can wield the gem and doesn't appear to be burning up like anyone who touched the others did, though that obviously could be because it's a different gem.
but
gems could be carried around in a suitcase and not do gem like magic interaction things.
gloves seem to matter even.
it seems like the rules are different for unliving things.
so I was wondering
that funny bit at the end where Cap and Tony seem to be consoling Thor about Vision being 'worthy' and saing the hammer can go up and down in the lift?
probably also not funny.
the rules are different for organic beings and for metal boxes, and Vision is somewhere in between.
So Thor says the worthiness test is unequivocally passed, but nobody actually knows how said test works, except Odin, who is not available.
Vision didn't get any lightning and stuff like when Thor got worthy.
Maybe he is just like the coffee table or the building lift.
... I like it better though if he is worthy, and the lifts worked because JARVIS was too...
And I'd judge Vision on his actions, which when we observed them were pretty cool, rescuing and so forth.
But we deliberately didn't see what happened to the last Ultron bot, it was distance and trees and mind gem light.
Ignoring the ridiculousness of there being a last bot, and Ultron being driven out of the internet, and how he didn't take over electronics to any good effect at all, probably primarily because he'd then win... ignoring all of that... I think the destruction of the last is deliberately ambiguous and Vision has it saved somewhere.
Daddy issues, right? And he has a surfeit of daddys.
Spoilers and more spoilers obviously, but just the right snark about just the right things.
Because yes, the most frustrating thing is the way Marvel as a whole has ducked out of dealing with the implications of Winter Soldier and gone back to HYDRA being That Lot Over There with the foreign bases, and the solution to SHIELD being more SHIELD only different, and at the very best reading endlessly deferring having an actual conversation about this.
But there was a stack of other frustrating too.
Also, SPOILERS I've not mentioned yet: it is possible that it is only my mum who was confused, and she was confused by how many sets of siblings there were in this movie cause she thought there were more than I thought, but you know the beginning when Thor was looking for the sceptre so he could bring it home? You know if he'd brought it home, then he'd have delivered it to 'Odin'? Who as of the end of the previous Thor film was Loki pulling his best prank ever? And that at the end of the movie Thanos had the Infinity Gauntlet straight out of Asgard's vaults? And that Thanos gave the mind gem to Loki before The Avengers movie, and therefore had control of it up until then, and Loki turned up smelling of crazy and espousing the doctrine of freedom from freedom? I did rewatch before seeing Ultron and didn't see Loki's eyes being especially blue compared to say Clint or Selvig, but we don't even know what Loki's wearing most of the time, he's definitely wearing illusions, his eyes could be any colour. But I'm thinking that Loki as an ongoing agent of Thanos, possibly because Mind Gem, is a viable reading. And I'm quite sure Loki wanted his mind gem sceptre back.
I'm not sure if the blue bit was a mind in the Mind Gem or around it. Everything we've seen about the infinity stones says that mortals or living beings touching them goes very poorly for them very quickly, but objects can touch them just fine. So building an artificial mind to be the one that actually wields a gem seems clever, and given Vision, clearly works. So the sceptre was itself a being with a mind? Maybe? and handing it to Loki then gets... complex, since it's quite possibly the organ grinder.
... I dislike these interpretations because Loki clearly did a hell of a lot of bad things and I don't want it to get waved away with mind control.
But there's more players than the Avengers have seen, and Thanos made most things happen, yesno?
But if Thor had just taken the stick home, sure we wouldn't have Ultron, but we would have given the Mind Gem to Loki and very probably Thanos, and that would be, you know, a bad thing.
Also, when Tony made Vision as a solution to Ultron, he was pouring JARVIS mind into the new body. That's like relying on friends and family instead of trying to make a newer angrier version. That's why the 'together' approach worked better, themey reasons.
But as read in comments elsewhere it's also the Engineer approach, if it don't work try again with a different bunch of settings. Ultron was already, what, 77? So as with the suits, optimise, tweak, try again. It's what he does. It's the glory and the tragic flaw of him both. I think I like it.
I don't so much like that I can't tell if the fanon reading of bots as sentient beings he considers family is meant to be in Avengers Age of Ultron. I mean, Ultron as some kind of angry offspring makes his characterisation make sense, but I don't know about the *other* AI. Being treated as slaves is an available reading. Tony as bad dad is just as possible as Tony as trying to be good dad. Either way he works too hard and spends too much time trying to save the world and assuming they'll follow his lead, which hey, Stark.
Basically everything in the MCU is about family. I know it simplifies the empathy, but I'm kind of done with daddy issues, even these generation shift trying to be a daddy issues.
I don't know though, introducing some more moms (who live) might make it interesting again.
... I really do wish we knew anything at all about Laura Barton.
Oh, AND, a thing I meant to say when I started typing that paragraph and got myself lost:
So, the sceptre has the mind gem in, but also possibly is a mind wielding the gem?
I'm not clear on that.
But we do know Vision is an artificial being that can wield the gem and doesn't appear to be burning up like anyone who touched the others did, though that obviously could be because it's a different gem.
but
gems could be carried around in a suitcase and not do gem like magic interaction things.
gloves seem to matter even.
it seems like the rules are different for unliving things.
so I was wondering
that funny bit at the end where Cap and Tony seem to be consoling Thor about Vision being 'worthy' and saing the hammer can go up and down in the lift?
probably also not funny.
the rules are different for organic beings and for metal boxes, and Vision is somewhere in between.
So Thor says the worthiness test is unequivocally passed, but nobody actually knows how said test works, except Odin, who is not available.
Vision didn't get any lightning and stuff like when Thor got worthy.
Maybe he is just like the coffee table or the building lift.
... I like it better though if he is worthy, and the lifts worked because JARVIS was too...
And I'd judge Vision on his actions, which when we observed them were pretty cool, rescuing and so forth.
But we deliberately didn't see what happened to the last Ultron bot, it was distance and trees and mind gem light.
Ignoring the ridiculousness of there being a last bot, and Ultron being driven out of the internet, and how he didn't take over electronics to any good effect at all, probably primarily because he'd then win... ignoring all of that... I think the destruction of the last is deliberately ambiguous and Vision has it saved somewhere.
Daddy issues, right? And he has a surfeit of daddys.