beccaelizabeth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccaelizabeth) wrote2008-05-01 12:24 am
beccaelizabeth) wrote2008-05-01 12:24 am
(no subject)
You know there's all these how to flirt guides turning up after the recent *facepalm*?
First reaction: ooooh, cool, there's a manual!
... whyfor humans not come with instructions? We considerable complicated.
I need to learn more stuff. It seems to be mostly stuff people mostly know and don't say in clear. Although also there's a lot of stuff I read and just go *blinky* because they're saying it like things are both clear and natural when I'm seeing embedded structural power stuff that has nothing to do with what they think they're saying. Like the way that a lot of the same body language gets written up as 'woman flirting with man' and 'submissive/nervous' ie yielding to power, when talking to a man, is read as sexual. That don't seem right to me.
Hmmm, has not read body language books recently, must double check.
Huh. This page reckons
Fifty-five per cent of the impression we get from someone comes through our body language
Thirty-eight per cent is from the tone, speed and inflection of our voice
and a mere seven per cent is from what we're actually saying!
now I severely question the precision of those numbers - they have the feeling of something that didn't round it down to tenths because it was trying to sound scientific. I'd want to see the research and the method. BUT... if those proportions are about right, no wonder Aspies have trouble! We're trying to communicated with about 1/10 of the signal NTs are using, and sending out we don't even know what on the other 9/10. Oh dear.
It's like how I noticed people didn't try to photo-hug me, except for JM who asked first. They photo-hug others without words asking. So clearly I was 'saying' something before I got there, but I don't know what. Mum says it's really noticeable, like a cat making big fur. I don't know I'm doing that. And that's with nice people who I would quite like to hug, so *big shrugs*.
There's also stuff in the body language stuff they say about how looking at mouths is sexy flirting. Um, sometimes looking at mouths is lipreading because there's too much noise around, or something. I mean I skip right past the bit that says usually 'we' look from eye to eye, because basically I'm looking at a corner or at my hands except for a few times. But this I am aware sends odd disconnect signals. I just... I don't know, I'd feel like I was shouting? Being shouted at? All that staring at eyes. *shrugs*
Reading about body language reminds me why I like typing. Typed words say stuff and know they're saying it. Until you apply the tools from English Lit, but, you know, in general, words communicate on purpose. All this other stuff... it's rarely on purpose, right? People just do things and people read it. I don't know. Much confusion.
Mostly what I read from my body language is if I'm doing Nervous Hands or not. Or rocking. I notice those things.
Oh dear. Does not seem likely to help.
There's safety rules on the end of the page. They have the look of something cut n pasted from some other context.
I also need, in pretty much every area of life, to learn when fear is actually in fact reasonable. Because having had my anxiety turned up to 11 for so damn long, all I've learned is how to ignore fear. And that's clearly and simply stupid. I just need to start learning basic safety rules for people that can manage leaving the house on their own and similar everyone thinks it's safe stuff.
... it's a little late to start being a teenager, but so it goes.
Oh, eeew. This list of 'signals' is meant for men to learn when women are flirting with them. Number one on the list? If a woman is on her own. Yes, apparently walking to the bar or the jukebox is a clear signal a woman wants to be chatted up right then. And swinging on her bar stool means she fancies who she's facing! And any seperation of shoes and feet is secretly her getting undressed!
*shudders*
See this is the kind of article that makes me want to (a) wear those big outfits with the veils and (b) not leave the house much. Urgh.
A lot of those things say that fiddling with hair or brushing hair back is flirting. A lot of the others say it is being nervous. Some split the difference and say it's being nervous cause you're flirting.
"The most common body language gestures that reveal at least minimal interest are hair twirling, hair tossing and leg crossing. When a woman tosses her hair, it comes across as a nervous gesture. What it tells the man is, he's making her a bit nervous. And to his mind, if she's nervous, she must be interested!"
... is it just me, or is this incredibly creepy?
Same signals mean 'go away scary' and 'go ahead pretty'???
Then look at the section on 'Arm Crossing' on that same link and *shudder*.
It's defensive and protective and anxious... and therefore sexual! And draws attention to the breasts! Must be a go-ahead.
*facepalm*
Leg crossing? "Lots of people unconsciously cross and uncross their legs when they're anxious." So, that's a go-away, right? "If you can't stop crossing your legs and you're virtually twitching in your seat, again this is an unconscious gesture that clearly tells a man that he's really getting to you." ... in a go-away sense? Oh, but no. "he knows you're burning hot for him"
Hello to the creepy!
all these signals they're squishing together the nervous/anxious and the interested.
And, yeah, I can see how one could be a bit nervous because interested, but then again isn't a whole stack of nervous signals more likely because scared=go-away??
Body language doesn't make sense. Words frequently don't entirely make sense, but body language just doesn't be in the same game as sense. Blah.
... oh, look, it's one in the morning. Okay, time to wander off and actually sleep again.
Last comment only: Symbol or word signs that simplify this stuff seem to me of the good. Green badge for hello, red for go away. Simple. Except for people working from different symbol systems, and people wanting a nice safe default position. And different interest groups wanting different defaults. Then, not-simple. Big mess.
Humans. Always more complications.
First reaction: ooooh, cool, there's a manual!
... whyfor humans not come with instructions? We considerable complicated.
I need to learn more stuff. It seems to be mostly stuff people mostly know and don't say in clear. Although also there's a lot of stuff I read and just go *blinky* because they're saying it like things are both clear and natural when I'm seeing embedded structural power stuff that has nothing to do with what they think they're saying. Like the way that a lot of the same body language gets written up as 'woman flirting with man' and 'submissive/nervous' ie yielding to power, when talking to a man, is read as sexual. That don't seem right to me.
Hmmm, has not read body language books recently, must double check.
Huh. This page reckons
Fifty-five per cent of the impression we get from someone comes through our body language
Thirty-eight per cent is from the tone, speed and inflection of our voice
and a mere seven per cent is from what we're actually saying!
now I severely question the precision of those numbers - they have the feeling of something that didn't round it down to tenths because it was trying to sound scientific. I'd want to see the research and the method. BUT... if those proportions are about right, no wonder Aspies have trouble! We're trying to communicated with about 1/10 of the signal NTs are using, and sending out we don't even know what on the other 9/10. Oh dear.
It's like how I noticed people didn't try to photo-hug me, except for JM who asked first. They photo-hug others without words asking. So clearly I was 'saying' something before I got there, but I don't know what. Mum says it's really noticeable, like a cat making big fur. I don't know I'm doing that. And that's with nice people who I would quite like to hug, so *big shrugs*.
There's also stuff in the body language stuff they say about how looking at mouths is sexy flirting. Um, sometimes looking at mouths is lipreading because there's too much noise around, or something. I mean I skip right past the bit that says usually 'we' look from eye to eye, because basically I'm looking at a corner or at my hands except for a few times. But this I am aware sends odd disconnect signals. I just... I don't know, I'd feel like I was shouting? Being shouted at? All that staring at eyes. *shrugs*
Reading about body language reminds me why I like typing. Typed words say stuff and know they're saying it. Until you apply the tools from English Lit, but, you know, in general, words communicate on purpose. All this other stuff... it's rarely on purpose, right? People just do things and people read it. I don't know. Much confusion.
Mostly what I read from my body language is if I'm doing Nervous Hands or not. Or rocking. I notice those things.
Oh dear. Does not seem likely to help.
There's safety rules on the end of the page. They have the look of something cut n pasted from some other context.
I also need, in pretty much every area of life, to learn when fear is actually in fact reasonable. Because having had my anxiety turned up to 11 for so damn long, all I've learned is how to ignore fear. And that's clearly and simply stupid. I just need to start learning basic safety rules for people that can manage leaving the house on their own and similar everyone thinks it's safe stuff.
... it's a little late to start being a teenager, but so it goes.
Oh, eeew. This list of 'signals' is meant for men to learn when women are flirting with them. Number one on the list? If a woman is on her own. Yes, apparently walking to the bar or the jukebox is a clear signal a woman wants to be chatted up right then. And swinging on her bar stool means she fancies who she's facing! And any seperation of shoes and feet is secretly her getting undressed!
*shudders*
See this is the kind of article that makes me want to (a) wear those big outfits with the veils and (b) not leave the house much. Urgh.
A lot of those things say that fiddling with hair or brushing hair back is flirting. A lot of the others say it is being nervous. Some split the difference and say it's being nervous cause you're flirting.
"The most common body language gestures that reveal at least minimal interest are hair twirling, hair tossing and leg crossing. When a woman tosses her hair, it comes across as a nervous gesture. What it tells the man is, he's making her a bit nervous. And to his mind, if she's nervous, she must be interested!"
... is it just me, or is this incredibly creepy?
Same signals mean 'go away scary' and 'go ahead pretty'???
Then look at the section on 'Arm Crossing' on that same link and *shudder*.
It's defensive and protective and anxious... and therefore sexual! And draws attention to the breasts! Must be a go-ahead.
*facepalm*
Leg crossing? "Lots of people unconsciously cross and uncross their legs when they're anxious." So, that's a go-away, right? "If you can't stop crossing your legs and you're virtually twitching in your seat, again this is an unconscious gesture that clearly tells a man that he's really getting to you." ... in a go-away sense? Oh, but no. "he knows you're burning hot for him"
Hello to the creepy!
all these signals they're squishing together the nervous/anxious and the interested.
And, yeah, I can see how one could be a bit nervous because interested, but then again isn't a whole stack of nervous signals more likely because scared=go-away??
Body language doesn't make sense. Words frequently don't entirely make sense, but body language just doesn't be in the same game as sense. Blah.
... oh, look, it's one in the morning. Okay, time to wander off and actually sleep again.
Last comment only: Symbol or word signs that simplify this stuff seem to me of the good. Green badge for hello, red for go away. Simple. Except for people working from different symbol systems, and people wanting a nice safe default position. And different interest groups wanting different defaults. Then, not-simple. Big mess.
Humans. Always more complications.
no subject
Maybe because it at least means the person has noticed? If the person is completely uninterested maybe they don't even notice that someone is flirting with them. And maybe most women do get anxious about sexual matters, so maybe any sort of interest will be the same as nervous in body language?
I don't know, that's just a guess.
Also where are the manuals for how women flirt and make the first move? All of the ones I have seen, even the ones written by women, and even the ones written by feminist women, assume the man makes the first move. Surely sometimes in this day and age the woman makes the offer?