beccaelizabeth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccaelizabeth) wrote2012-05-16 11:44 pm
beccaelizabeth) wrote2012-05-16 11:44 pm
Comics plots
Okay, so I wrote a comment on someone's entry and then realised once again I'm so lurky on other people's blogs I'd just be popping up out of nowhere to tell them a really long comment on how, er, wrong they were, and so I hid again.
But I can post on my own place.
So: they couldn't think of a superhero plot because comics are just someone kicking someone else's arse.
Which strikes me as kind of like saying dance is just people moving their arms and legs around. I mean, yes, but...
I don't know as I think of comics plots being about the arse kicking.
They're sort of about a hero's relationship to power and to other powerful people.
Like, usually there's a handful of characters somewhere in the cycle of being depowered, coping without their powers, and powering up again.
Disassemble, reassemble.
If it's a team book, they're either breaking up the team, getting back together, or having a couple of adventures where nobody is thinking about leaving and everyone gets on really well, which is usually a sign there's going to be a shock funeral any minute now.
Sometimes someone strikes out on their own. How that turns out depends on how their solo book does.
Or they might be legacy heroes, second generation, trying to establish themselves outside the shadow of their mentor, or trying to uphold the traditions that go with the uniform.
Teen Titans is pretty much always about OMG I might grow up just like dad arrgh arrgh nooooo vs OMG how am I ever going to grow up like dad? ... often in the exact same character. See: Batfamily.
Then there's the evil twins stories, the mirror 'verse, the ones where another team almost exactly like them does things that cross the moral lines and we get to see where different teams draw those lines.
Which is fun because much crunching against people of equal power who are easy to invent cause you just have everyone you already know go dark side.
Movie plots are kind of about power, but really substantially about being a teenager and relationships to your parental types.
I mean, Iron Man is about 'fake dad is an arsehole and hey, look, I can actually grow up!' and Iron Man 2 is about 'real dad was... okay, kind of an arse too, but that was okay! screw all those haters!' and Thor was... okay, he's both real dad and fake dad, and one of the kids grew up and the other just decided to blow stuff up, but that was fun.
I don't remember what the Hulk films were about but I'm going to go out on a limb and say dads were involved, and possibly growing up.
Captain America was about him starting out too little for the problem and getting big ie growing up. And punching Nazis. And hitting them in the face with shields. Which is fun, because who doesn't hate Nazis? ... there's not much of history where everyone can just feel good about hating the one side even after a lot of research. Not sure even Nazi hate is a good thing, in the grand scheme, but for a movie? *pow*
I still haven't seen Avengers. I'm an essay, a research proposal, and an annotated bibliography away from seeing Avengers. I should be doing that instead of movie plots.
BUT anyways...
Saying the plot is all kicking someone is kind of missing the why of kicking, which is probably why boring. It's always about illuminating the hero, their moral choices, and their relationships.
Like, Highlander was a show where somebody chopped someone's head off every week, but the writers approached it as romantic talmudic discussion with swords.
There were two moral positions every week and they did trial by combat.
and, okay, sometimes it was our noble hero vs some dude who just gets off on killing people, which isn't a complex moral problem, but then you can mix it up with stuff like, what if the other dude looks like a ten year old? What if you once promised you wouldn't kill the guy? What if he kills a ton of people and then goes to be a monk?
The fight sequence is how they work out their problems, but there's a really varied ton of problems they could have in the first place.
Also? See previous post Tell us not that monsters exist but that they can be beaten
It's not just why are they fighting, it's why do we need them to?
And why do we need to read it?
And there's a Joss interview that I'd go look for but I'd bump into a bunch of Avenger's spoilers
he says something about the moment, for him, is all about where someone stands up and realises they have power
Because we all need that one, that clear moment where you see the problem, see the solution, and see that you can actually get it done.
And, yes, as a genre feature, that involves kicking, usually while wearing spandex.
But that's what makes it mythology, and not a day at the office... though come to think a bunch of it makes mythology *of* the day at the office. See: Daily Planet, etc.
There's the moment we take the camouflage off and turn out to be something more, the moment we take a step and fly, the moment we face our fears.
On the outside, okay, someone kicks someone's arse... but the outside is not the story.
So there's a bazillion comics plots.
But I can post on my own place.
So: they couldn't think of a superhero plot because comics are just someone kicking someone else's arse.
Which strikes me as kind of like saying dance is just people moving their arms and legs around. I mean, yes, but...
I don't know as I think of comics plots being about the arse kicking.
They're sort of about a hero's relationship to power and to other powerful people.
Like, usually there's a handful of characters somewhere in the cycle of being depowered, coping without their powers, and powering up again.
Disassemble, reassemble.
If it's a team book, they're either breaking up the team, getting back together, or having a couple of adventures where nobody is thinking about leaving and everyone gets on really well, which is usually a sign there's going to be a shock funeral any minute now.
Sometimes someone strikes out on their own. How that turns out depends on how their solo book does.
Or they might be legacy heroes, second generation, trying to establish themselves outside the shadow of their mentor, or trying to uphold the traditions that go with the uniform.
Teen Titans is pretty much always about OMG I might grow up just like dad arrgh arrgh nooooo vs OMG how am I ever going to grow up like dad? ... often in the exact same character. See: Batfamily.
Then there's the evil twins stories, the mirror 'verse, the ones where another team almost exactly like them does things that cross the moral lines and we get to see where different teams draw those lines.
Which is fun because much crunching against people of equal power who are easy to invent cause you just have everyone you already know go dark side.
Movie plots are kind of about power, but really substantially about being a teenager and relationships to your parental types.
I mean, Iron Man is about 'fake dad is an arsehole and hey, look, I can actually grow up!' and Iron Man 2 is about 'real dad was... okay, kind of an arse too, but that was okay! screw all those haters!' and Thor was... okay, he's both real dad and fake dad, and one of the kids grew up and the other just decided to blow stuff up, but that was fun.
I don't remember what the Hulk films were about but I'm going to go out on a limb and say dads were involved, and possibly growing up.
Captain America was about him starting out too little for the problem and getting big ie growing up. And punching Nazis. And hitting them in the face with shields. Which is fun, because who doesn't hate Nazis? ... there's not much of history where everyone can just feel good about hating the one side even after a lot of research. Not sure even Nazi hate is a good thing, in the grand scheme, but for a movie? *pow*
I still haven't seen Avengers. I'm an essay, a research proposal, and an annotated bibliography away from seeing Avengers. I should be doing that instead of movie plots.
BUT anyways...
Saying the plot is all kicking someone is kind of missing the why of kicking, which is probably why boring. It's always about illuminating the hero, their moral choices, and their relationships.
Like, Highlander was a show where somebody chopped someone's head off every week, but the writers approached it as romantic talmudic discussion with swords.
There were two moral positions every week and they did trial by combat.
and, okay, sometimes it was our noble hero vs some dude who just gets off on killing people, which isn't a complex moral problem, but then you can mix it up with stuff like, what if the other dude looks like a ten year old? What if you once promised you wouldn't kill the guy? What if he kills a ton of people and then goes to be a monk?
The fight sequence is how they work out their problems, but there's a really varied ton of problems they could have in the first place.
Also? See previous post Tell us not that monsters exist but that they can be beaten
It's not just why are they fighting, it's why do we need them to?
And why do we need to read it?
And there's a Joss interview that I'd go look for but I'd bump into a bunch of Avenger's spoilers
he says something about the moment, for him, is all about where someone stands up and realises they have power
Because we all need that one, that clear moment where you see the problem, see the solution, and see that you can actually get it done.
And, yes, as a genre feature, that involves kicking, usually while wearing spandex.
But that's what makes it mythology, and not a day at the office... though come to think a bunch of it makes mythology *of* the day at the office. See: Daily Planet, etc.
There's the moment we take the camouflage off and turn out to be something more, the moment we take a step and fly, the moment we face our fears.
On the outside, okay, someone kicks someone's arse... but the outside is not the story.
So there's a bazillion comics plots.
no subject
But that's what makes it mythology, and not a day at the office"
Some people sooooo do not get this.
I keep coming across reviews, from liberal-minded, intelligent newspapers I usually respect, about how much they disliked The Avengers, because it involved good guys kicking the crap out of bad guys. And how simplistic and black-and-white that was. And how it catered to what was worst in Americans, our desire to have obvious good guys and bad guys, and be able to beat up the bad guys. Etcetera etcetera.
And I keep thinking, "Did you people never read myths or fairy tales in your entire life? Or were you too 'mature' for that even in diapers?"