beccaelizabeth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccaelizabeth) wrote2007-02-04 05:19 am
beccaelizabeth) wrote2007-02-04 05:19 am
Entry tags:
more on Torchwood 1-04
So I'm having a thought, and it may need to wander around the page a bit and be repeated at some time not 0520 before it entirely makes sense.
but
A thought about 1-04, Ianto, and what is obvious inside and outside the 'verse.
And also about who is right, and when, and how.
First of all, once we see what Ianto is keeping in the basement, we the audience are operating from a *very* different data set than Ianto could be. We've watched Doctor Who, we saw a nice tidy clearly presented narrative, we know a ton about cybermen. And we know we're watching a show that is billed as dark, gritty, adult, and tends towards horror in the SF spectrum.
So we know it's all going to go horribly wrong.
Ianto is probably under the impression he's in a love conquers all romance. I had a bunch of thoughts back when I was reading Great Expectations for class, about how a character misreading their genre can cause all kinds of badness.
But
if you look at the website, you can see Ianto talking to an online counsellor. And he translates the whole situation. Company went under badly, health repercussions. It all sounds very mundane.
If he translated it in his head? He's not even in SF.
And really, who is? We're wandering around with the kind of computing and communications technology that early Trek dreamed of, but we don't think of it as SF. That's just the world.
So what he's waiting for is a medical solution to a health problem, complicated by the fact that his employers probably just want to kill and dissect her.
Which is a bit of a huge great nasty complication, really.
So it's Ianto & Lisa vs the world, and he knows he's on the right side.
So at what point in the episode is it reasonable for him to change his mind?
... that very, very greatly depends on your resources. As well as your norms and values.
Consider:
Ianto's values put the preservation of life, specifically Lisa's life, ahead of the mission of Torchwood to investigate alien technology. But he's got it sorted out so it's all part of duty, a duty of care to look after someone injured on their watch. In his head, this is the thing that makes the most sense. So put that top of the priorities.
But he's also not looking to see the same thing happen to anyone else. He's genuinely horrified when things go wrong. He never wanted anyone else to get hurt. So he values lives, not just Lisa's life.
He doesn't see Lisa as a threat.
And at the start of the episode he is, as far as I can run the math, 100% correct.
She's paralysed, on full life support, rarely conscious and probably never fully coherent. She's been through horrible psychological trauma, and she's on as much painkiller as he can get hold of, because it isn't working yet and he doesn't want her to suffer.
What part of that is a threat?
Answer: The cyber infection, the life form that uses other forms to reproduce itself.
But it's quarantined. Nobody goes in there except Ianto. Big strong door, locks on the *outside*. He's keeping her locked in. He's taking reasonable security precautions.
She isn't a threat. At all.
Then comes Dr Tanizaki, an expert, an authority, holding out the possibility of hope.
He probably is the only guy on Earth who could possibly help. Ianto would have done the research. Bit of a problem with his attitude, maybe, but there's hardly anyone aware the technology exists, let alone having any knowledge how to do anything with it. So what are his options?
He calls in the guy with the knowledge, despite the fact he has a different set of values.
Problem. Tanizaki wants the tech, wants it to work, and according to the website on some levels wants to become a Cyberman. He's got a health problem - bad knee - he admires the tech, and he doesn't see the cost. He isn't talking to Lisa, he doesn't see her at first glance, he sees shiny tech toys and wants to play. He is actually exactly the kind of human that the cybermen usually exploit.
Narrative karma therefore gives him what he wants but not the way he wants it. Cybertech but not immortality. Oops.
But did Ianto make a mistake to call him in?
(Don't judge by results, he doesn't get that luxury.)
Expert that might possibly save her life vs leaving her in a basement in agony. Not a tough call. Call the doctor.
... wrong kind of doctor.
Tanizaki risked her life to get the cybertech working. So Lisa died on the table. Then rebooted.
There's a case to be made that the Cybermen played Ianto from the start. Why design her woman shaped? Why leave her face showing? If cybermen understand and exploit emotion, if they knew Lisa was pair bonded, if they had Ianto standing right there trying to save her? Hello trojan.
But there's also a case that he wasn't entirely played, that she was holding on, until the reboot. She died, it lived.
And Ianto didn't have the opportunity to notice before someone got killed.
So did he screw up?
He'd reached the end of his expertise and trusted someone elses. That isn't a screw up, that's basic necessity. That's what most of us do every time we end up in hospital.
Did Tanizaki screw up? Not by his own values, no, he got a working cyberman out of it.
By Ianto's values he was always working for the wrong goal. Not the cyberwoman's life to be saved, Lisa's.
So then Ianto gets on with the cover up and the cyberwoman kills the doctor.
Problem.
Ianto goes down there and decides to hide the corpse.
Was that a screw up?
The trouble is Ianto knows what his options are. He has predicted - accurately - what Torchwood will do to Lisa if they find her. Would it have been accurate if she was still paralysed? Unknown, but more evidence later.
But basically he knows that discovery = death.
Is it time to kill her?
... is it ever time to kill the mentaly ill?
... speaking for the mentally ill constituency, I think I'd like to vote 'no' on that one, please.
He's thinking things like containment - get her to stay in her room, put her in a cell, either way she's no further threat to anyone. It's normally within Torchwood resources - hell, it's within his resources up to this point. But he hasn't updated his math - she isn't helpless any more. A bit of a recharge and she's a fully functional cyberwoman warrior. And that tips the balance rather.
Ianto can't keep her contained. He keeps trying, but his plans are all for the wrong target. Failure to update. He's had months of her being paralysed and in agony, utterly dependent. Now she's gone all Terminator and he's not keeping up.
And because of the way she was plugged in the whole base is buggered.
Should he have her life support on batteries? Risks her life, needs tech he may not have, would leave it impossible to pull the plug centrally as Tosh does. He probably doesn't know the power requirements for conversion anyway. Knowing, could do something about it. Not knowing, fits his priorities better to keep her on the reliable power.
Could it have been arranged so they could pull the plug on her without locking down the whole base?
Well since I can do that with the little box above my front door I would have to say yes.
Technical screw up there, yup. Should be able to cut off levels, not just lockdown everywhere.
Yes I know it was for drama.
So resources go: One fully functional Cyberwoman vs 5 Torchwood employees who drop their guns.
At this point, containment is not a worky plan.
Ianto thinks he can talk her into going into a cell.
Ianto is wrong.
Ianto nearly gets killed.
So, definitely 'danger to herself and others' then.
And is it time to kill her?
Answer in an ideal world: Never.
Answer in the available world: Yes.
It's the shoot/don't shoot dilemma police face. They'd rather arrest, but they don't have a chance to here. But Ianto is (a) British (b) Not police and (c) working for an outfit that doesn't seem real clear about rules of engagement. He's probably never thought it through.
That's the thing. There's probably things he reckons unthinkable. Like Buffy saying they're not going to kill Dawn. She misses a bunch of possible plans (flatliners anyone?) because she's made a line and won't think past it. It being her universe she gets away with it. Ianto is the woobie and gets away with nothing.
So, lots of running, drama, cyberwoman getting killed, cyberwoman not actually dead, cyberwoman vs pterodactyl.
Jack has used all available resources to save his team and the world, by destroying a clear and present danger. He has definitely thought it through. He has plans for all this stuff, numbered and ready to go.
... he either thought up the BBQ sauce thing on the spot, or he's sat there working it into contingency plans. I don't know which is scarier.
So anyways, Jack values his team, values the world, and thinks of cybermen as an infection with no cure.
Again, we the audience have a different take on this. Because we've seen the Cyberman on the stairs, duty for Queen and Country. We've seen the cybermen with their emotion inhibitors turned off. Lisa's never seemed to work. And without it there was just a regular person in a shell. And some of us have seen earlier arcs where part converted cybermen hold on to old loyalties.
Not a cure, no, but certainly some possibilities.
But none they can afford to work through at that precise moment. They stay trapped, they get dead. Very simple and demonstrated rather vividly by Jack already. So he gets them untrapped, gets the cyberwoman contained. Going up on the lift.
"Have some fucking mercy" yells Ianto
but Jack does not call the dinosaur off.
Why?
Cyberwoman would have been contained in the Hub, right?
... because containing the cyber with the tech knowledge in tech central is such a good idea.
So no, Jack still couldn't afford mercy. Given time, the cyber would breach security, and there would be hell to pay. Couldn't give her time.
Ianto still not figuring that, still not seeing her as a threat. So in this middle section, Ianto is clearly in the wrong.
And I've read some people being very anti about that. Like it's clear and obvious, like he should have picked up a gun right from the start.
Think about it.
Someone you love has been ill, dependent on you, unable to move, stuck in the dark and in agony. They're on painkillers and they've been through a bunch of stuff that makes them loopy. They're *sick*.
If someone who is sick is violent, are you going to respond the same way as you would if they were well?
There's a whole "not their fault, mustn't hurt them worse" loop that kicks in for many people.
That's where Ianto was stuck.
If you've ever had to think it through past "danger to themselves and others" there's a point past which you have to stop them.
Ianto hasn't realised how very much past that point they are.
But at what point are you going to decide that?
One hour from now?
Because it seems to me much of Cyberwoman is in real time, so from hit the fan to people shooting at her happens *very* fast.
He's being told Lisa is gone.
Where's the RL precedent?
People get mentally ill, and then they get better. They aren't 'gone', they're just acting differently.
There *is* no RL paradigm for 'brain reprogrammed by cybermen'.
So how is he supposed to deal here?
Like he has been for months, thinking of her as ill
or like he's being told, that she's dead and something else has her face?
(Yeah, vampire precedent. I have a speech for that too - it boils down to, staking vampires is wrong, if you have infinite resources. If all you have is a pointy bit of wood it's the best available option.)
Play with SF ideas long enough and you don't believe in impossible. I mean, how many characters get really lost to the Borg, or whoever? How many times are there miracle cures?
So then Ianto punches out Jack, and Ianto is actually in the wrong by his own summary of duty. Protect the team, protect those who work for Torchwood - that's his rationale for looking after Lisa. That's what Jack was doing. So Ianto still in the wrong.
Then there is running and getting back in the Hub, and Jack sends Ianto down to execute the cyberwoman.
It's cold, but at this point Jack's options are pretty damn skinny - with Ianto's allegiances the way they are, Jack is either going to have to kill him or retcon him, and the retcon isn't a 100% sure thing so killing is safer for the team and the mission.
I'm pretty sure that Jack-who-kissed-Ianto does not want to kill *or* retcon him.
So he sends him to face reality.
What reality does he find?
Cyberwoman, powered up, killing machine?
No.
Pizza!Lisa, human and squishy, and still talking like a cyberwoman.
And at this point could be it's *Jack* who fails to update.
They couldn't contain the cyberwoman. They hadn't the weapons, they hadn't a cell strong enough, they couldn't risk their lives.
They *could* contain human squishy woman with wonky thinking.
And it would have been to their advantage to do so. Torchwood is there to research alien tech, cybertech included. Lisa understood the cybertech enough to modify it into a life support system.
She's an intelligence source, she's easily contained, they have the cell and the resources and it isn't going to cost any lives to do it.
And Jack shoots her anyway.
Team Torchwood shoot her, firing squad style.
And maybe Lisa was all lost by then, but... there were things they didn't try. Data they didn't have. What would happen if they gave her retcon? What if they wiped her back to before the new cyber meme? Major psych problems remaining from the transplant, yes. Probably some major physical problems too. But they didn't try it.
Why?
Jack deemed her still too dangerous. A threat they still couldn't contain. Why?
Cybermen exploit human weakness. Specifically the kind of weakness that makes them, every now and then, think it would indeed be better. Want to upgrade.
Torchwood? Look at the shiny tech. Isn't it pretty? Wouldn't you like to be faster, stronger, live longer? Here's a cyberwoman in a cell, she'll tell you how...
Jack decides to erase that possibility.
Does it by killing a woman.
They're all operating from slightly, slightly, different value sets, and very different data sets. And that creates conflict.
For Ianto there's also times by his own standards he is wrong.
That's why he can accept it by the end of the episode. Turn up and clean up. Look up to Jack - metaphor via camera work, he's looking up and the others are looking down on him; and it's a big turn around from him being the one with the desk above them all and closest to the real world. Except later Ianto goes back there and there's less down looking. Because he fits again, falls in line, decides to be Jack when he grows up and call all his decision the right ones.
Jack says there is no cure and there never will be, that small decisions lead to mass slaughter. He's waving time traveller privilege around like crazy right then. Data set of the gods, knowledge of the future.
This is episode 1-04. We've just had 1-03 show us that it is a future, and that predictions can be wrong. I find that interesting.
If it's only a future, is Jack still right?
He's locking the cybertech away more securely than even the stuff in the safe. He's saying what is and isn't safe to know yet. He's saying basically that he can resist temptation but the rest of humanity can't.
... interesting.
So after that idea wandered around all over the place, my conclusion is:
It's not as obvious to Ianto.
It's a foregone conclusion to Jack.
And to the audience it depends what genre we think we're in.
From no character's value set is the final solution the ideal one, but it may be the only one they can manage with their current resources. But. I'm still not sold on that - there were possibilities not tried at all. And that makes Jack just that bit darker, and Ianto not entirely wrong at all.
but
A thought about 1-04, Ianto, and what is obvious inside and outside the 'verse.
And also about who is right, and when, and how.
First of all, once we see what Ianto is keeping in the basement, we the audience are operating from a *very* different data set than Ianto could be. We've watched Doctor Who, we saw a nice tidy clearly presented narrative, we know a ton about cybermen. And we know we're watching a show that is billed as dark, gritty, adult, and tends towards horror in the SF spectrum.
So we know it's all going to go horribly wrong.
Ianto is probably under the impression he's in a love conquers all romance. I had a bunch of thoughts back when I was reading Great Expectations for class, about how a character misreading their genre can cause all kinds of badness.
But
if you look at the website, you can see Ianto talking to an online counsellor. And he translates the whole situation. Company went under badly, health repercussions. It all sounds very mundane.
If he translated it in his head? He's not even in SF.
And really, who is? We're wandering around with the kind of computing and communications technology that early Trek dreamed of, but we don't think of it as SF. That's just the world.
So what he's waiting for is a medical solution to a health problem, complicated by the fact that his employers probably just want to kill and dissect her.
Which is a bit of a huge great nasty complication, really.
So it's Ianto & Lisa vs the world, and he knows he's on the right side.
So at what point in the episode is it reasonable for him to change his mind?
... that very, very greatly depends on your resources. As well as your norms and values.
Consider:
Ianto's values put the preservation of life, specifically Lisa's life, ahead of the mission of Torchwood to investigate alien technology. But he's got it sorted out so it's all part of duty, a duty of care to look after someone injured on their watch. In his head, this is the thing that makes the most sense. So put that top of the priorities.
But he's also not looking to see the same thing happen to anyone else. He's genuinely horrified when things go wrong. He never wanted anyone else to get hurt. So he values lives, not just Lisa's life.
He doesn't see Lisa as a threat.
And at the start of the episode he is, as far as I can run the math, 100% correct.
She's paralysed, on full life support, rarely conscious and probably never fully coherent. She's been through horrible psychological trauma, and she's on as much painkiller as he can get hold of, because it isn't working yet and he doesn't want her to suffer.
What part of that is a threat?
Answer: The cyber infection, the life form that uses other forms to reproduce itself.
But it's quarantined. Nobody goes in there except Ianto. Big strong door, locks on the *outside*. He's keeping her locked in. He's taking reasonable security precautions.
She isn't a threat. At all.
Then comes Dr Tanizaki, an expert, an authority, holding out the possibility of hope.
He probably is the only guy on Earth who could possibly help. Ianto would have done the research. Bit of a problem with his attitude, maybe, but there's hardly anyone aware the technology exists, let alone having any knowledge how to do anything with it. So what are his options?
He calls in the guy with the knowledge, despite the fact he has a different set of values.
Problem. Tanizaki wants the tech, wants it to work, and according to the website on some levels wants to become a Cyberman. He's got a health problem - bad knee - he admires the tech, and he doesn't see the cost. He isn't talking to Lisa, he doesn't see her at first glance, he sees shiny tech toys and wants to play. He is actually exactly the kind of human that the cybermen usually exploit.
Narrative karma therefore gives him what he wants but not the way he wants it. Cybertech but not immortality. Oops.
But did Ianto make a mistake to call him in?
(Don't judge by results, he doesn't get that luxury.)
Expert that might possibly save her life vs leaving her in a basement in agony. Not a tough call. Call the doctor.
... wrong kind of doctor.
Tanizaki risked her life to get the cybertech working. So Lisa died on the table. Then rebooted.
There's a case to be made that the Cybermen played Ianto from the start. Why design her woman shaped? Why leave her face showing? If cybermen understand and exploit emotion, if they knew Lisa was pair bonded, if they had Ianto standing right there trying to save her? Hello trojan.
But there's also a case that he wasn't entirely played, that she was holding on, until the reboot. She died, it lived.
And Ianto didn't have the opportunity to notice before someone got killed.
So did he screw up?
He'd reached the end of his expertise and trusted someone elses. That isn't a screw up, that's basic necessity. That's what most of us do every time we end up in hospital.
Did Tanizaki screw up? Not by his own values, no, he got a working cyberman out of it.
By Ianto's values he was always working for the wrong goal. Not the cyberwoman's life to be saved, Lisa's.
So then Ianto gets on with the cover up and the cyberwoman kills the doctor.
Problem.
Ianto goes down there and decides to hide the corpse.
Was that a screw up?
The trouble is Ianto knows what his options are. He has predicted - accurately - what Torchwood will do to Lisa if they find her. Would it have been accurate if she was still paralysed? Unknown, but more evidence later.
But basically he knows that discovery = death.
Is it time to kill her?
... is it ever time to kill the mentaly ill?
... speaking for the mentally ill constituency, I think I'd like to vote 'no' on that one, please.
He's thinking things like containment - get her to stay in her room, put her in a cell, either way she's no further threat to anyone. It's normally within Torchwood resources - hell, it's within his resources up to this point. But he hasn't updated his math - she isn't helpless any more. A bit of a recharge and she's a fully functional cyberwoman warrior. And that tips the balance rather.
Ianto can't keep her contained. He keeps trying, but his plans are all for the wrong target. Failure to update. He's had months of her being paralysed and in agony, utterly dependent. Now she's gone all Terminator and he's not keeping up.
And because of the way she was plugged in the whole base is buggered.
Should he have her life support on batteries? Risks her life, needs tech he may not have, would leave it impossible to pull the plug centrally as Tosh does. He probably doesn't know the power requirements for conversion anyway. Knowing, could do something about it. Not knowing, fits his priorities better to keep her on the reliable power.
Could it have been arranged so they could pull the plug on her without locking down the whole base?
Well since I can do that with the little box above my front door I would have to say yes.
Technical screw up there, yup. Should be able to cut off levels, not just lockdown everywhere.
Yes I know it was for drama.
So resources go: One fully functional Cyberwoman vs 5 Torchwood employees who drop their guns.
At this point, containment is not a worky plan.
Ianto thinks he can talk her into going into a cell.
Ianto is wrong.
Ianto nearly gets killed.
So, definitely 'danger to herself and others' then.
And is it time to kill her?
Answer in an ideal world: Never.
Answer in the available world: Yes.
It's the shoot/don't shoot dilemma police face. They'd rather arrest, but they don't have a chance to here. But Ianto is (a) British (b) Not police and (c) working for an outfit that doesn't seem real clear about rules of engagement. He's probably never thought it through.
That's the thing. There's probably things he reckons unthinkable. Like Buffy saying they're not going to kill Dawn. She misses a bunch of possible plans (flatliners anyone?) because she's made a line and won't think past it. It being her universe she gets away with it. Ianto is the woobie and gets away with nothing.
So, lots of running, drama, cyberwoman getting killed, cyberwoman not actually dead, cyberwoman vs pterodactyl.
Jack has used all available resources to save his team and the world, by destroying a clear and present danger. He has definitely thought it through. He has plans for all this stuff, numbered and ready to go.
... he either thought up the BBQ sauce thing on the spot, or he's sat there working it into contingency plans. I don't know which is scarier.
So anyways, Jack values his team, values the world, and thinks of cybermen as an infection with no cure.
Again, we the audience have a different take on this. Because we've seen the Cyberman on the stairs, duty for Queen and Country. We've seen the cybermen with their emotion inhibitors turned off. Lisa's never seemed to work. And without it there was just a regular person in a shell. And some of us have seen earlier arcs where part converted cybermen hold on to old loyalties.
Not a cure, no, but certainly some possibilities.
But none they can afford to work through at that precise moment. They stay trapped, they get dead. Very simple and demonstrated rather vividly by Jack already. So he gets them untrapped, gets the cyberwoman contained. Going up on the lift.
"Have some fucking mercy" yells Ianto
but Jack does not call the dinosaur off.
Why?
Cyberwoman would have been contained in the Hub, right?
... because containing the cyber with the tech knowledge in tech central is such a good idea.
So no, Jack still couldn't afford mercy. Given time, the cyber would breach security, and there would be hell to pay. Couldn't give her time.
Ianto still not figuring that, still not seeing her as a threat. So in this middle section, Ianto is clearly in the wrong.
And I've read some people being very anti about that. Like it's clear and obvious, like he should have picked up a gun right from the start.
Think about it.
Someone you love has been ill, dependent on you, unable to move, stuck in the dark and in agony. They're on painkillers and they've been through a bunch of stuff that makes them loopy. They're *sick*.
If someone who is sick is violent, are you going to respond the same way as you would if they were well?
There's a whole "not their fault, mustn't hurt them worse" loop that kicks in for many people.
That's where Ianto was stuck.
If you've ever had to think it through past "danger to themselves and others" there's a point past which you have to stop them.
Ianto hasn't realised how very much past that point they are.
But at what point are you going to decide that?
One hour from now?
Because it seems to me much of Cyberwoman is in real time, so from hit the fan to people shooting at her happens *very* fast.
He's being told Lisa is gone.
Where's the RL precedent?
People get mentally ill, and then they get better. They aren't 'gone', they're just acting differently.
There *is* no RL paradigm for 'brain reprogrammed by cybermen'.
So how is he supposed to deal here?
Like he has been for months, thinking of her as ill
or like he's being told, that she's dead and something else has her face?
(Yeah, vampire precedent. I have a speech for that too - it boils down to, staking vampires is wrong, if you have infinite resources. If all you have is a pointy bit of wood it's the best available option.)
Play with SF ideas long enough and you don't believe in impossible. I mean, how many characters get really lost to the Borg, or whoever? How many times are there miracle cures?
So then Ianto punches out Jack, and Ianto is actually in the wrong by his own summary of duty. Protect the team, protect those who work for Torchwood - that's his rationale for looking after Lisa. That's what Jack was doing. So Ianto still in the wrong.
Then there is running and getting back in the Hub, and Jack sends Ianto down to execute the cyberwoman.
It's cold, but at this point Jack's options are pretty damn skinny - with Ianto's allegiances the way they are, Jack is either going to have to kill him or retcon him, and the retcon isn't a 100% sure thing so killing is safer for the team and the mission.
I'm pretty sure that Jack-who-kissed-Ianto does not want to kill *or* retcon him.
So he sends him to face reality.
What reality does he find?
Cyberwoman, powered up, killing machine?
No.
Pizza!Lisa, human and squishy, and still talking like a cyberwoman.
And at this point could be it's *Jack* who fails to update.
They couldn't contain the cyberwoman. They hadn't the weapons, they hadn't a cell strong enough, they couldn't risk their lives.
They *could* contain human squishy woman with wonky thinking.
And it would have been to their advantage to do so. Torchwood is there to research alien tech, cybertech included. Lisa understood the cybertech enough to modify it into a life support system.
She's an intelligence source, she's easily contained, they have the cell and the resources and it isn't going to cost any lives to do it.
And Jack shoots her anyway.
Team Torchwood shoot her, firing squad style.
And maybe Lisa was all lost by then, but... there were things they didn't try. Data they didn't have. What would happen if they gave her retcon? What if they wiped her back to before the new cyber meme? Major psych problems remaining from the transplant, yes. Probably some major physical problems too. But they didn't try it.
Why?
Jack deemed her still too dangerous. A threat they still couldn't contain. Why?
Cybermen exploit human weakness. Specifically the kind of weakness that makes them, every now and then, think it would indeed be better. Want to upgrade.
Torchwood? Look at the shiny tech. Isn't it pretty? Wouldn't you like to be faster, stronger, live longer? Here's a cyberwoman in a cell, she'll tell you how...
Jack decides to erase that possibility.
Does it by killing a woman.
They're all operating from slightly, slightly, different value sets, and very different data sets. And that creates conflict.
For Ianto there's also times by his own standards he is wrong.
That's why he can accept it by the end of the episode. Turn up and clean up. Look up to Jack - metaphor via camera work, he's looking up and the others are looking down on him; and it's a big turn around from him being the one with the desk above them all and closest to the real world. Except later Ianto goes back there and there's less down looking. Because he fits again, falls in line, decides to be Jack when he grows up and call all his decision the right ones.
Jack says there is no cure and there never will be, that small decisions lead to mass slaughter. He's waving time traveller privilege around like crazy right then. Data set of the gods, knowledge of the future.
This is episode 1-04. We've just had 1-03 show us that it is a future, and that predictions can be wrong. I find that interesting.
If it's only a future, is Jack still right?
He's locking the cybertech away more securely than even the stuff in the safe. He's saying what is and isn't safe to know yet. He's saying basically that he can resist temptation but the rest of humanity can't.
... interesting.
So after that idea wandered around all over the place, my conclusion is:
It's not as obvious to Ianto.
It's a foregone conclusion to Jack.
And to the audience it depends what genre we think we're in.
From no character's value set is the final solution the ideal one, but it may be the only one they can manage with their current resources. But. I'm still not sold on that - there were possibilities not tried at all. And that makes Jack just that bit darker, and Ianto not entirely wrong at all.
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