beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
[personal profile] beccaelizabeth
Okay, so I can't sleep and I'm having a bad brain day, and my brain has decided to chew over Torchwood.
This was on the list of reasons I didn't start watching this season.
Sometimes I should listen to me.

Spoilers for Miracle Day up to ep 3.


Dr Juarez had two little speeches in the emergency room. One of them was about how they now had nothing but time and the whole principle of triage needs to be inverted so they can free up beds quickly. the other was about a woman who had been strangled until her brain was dead but nobody was actually finally dying. These things should connect. Nobody is dying, right, okay, but that doesn't mean it's okay to leave people. There are things they could leave, because nobody would die of them but they wouldn't get any worse off either. There are things they could leave, because they already had the worst happen to their brain and brains aren't fixable yet. And then there are the things they have to work on right now or brain damage may occur.
That's basic triage, the way up it's usually prioritised, the people who will be okay, the ones that never will, and the ones you must work on now.
The differences would be in the assessment criteria.
What you would not do is simply throw out triage and prioritise by how quick they are to treat. Because injury still has consequences. Those consequences apparently don't involve paralysis, but do involve brain damage. So you would reprioritise everything around avoiding brain damage.

It has been bothering me.

Because it's a subset of the basic problem. Nobody dies? So what. We're all like that, up until the last breath. Death is not really relevant to the vast majority of your alive time. So saying anything goes now because you can't die? Big rubbish.

What Jack said about a lifetime of regret just lasting longer now, well, he would know, and it's the smartest thing said so far.

That bit in the bar with the people throwing away their sobriety, that bugs the hell out of me. And not just for the general purpose alcohol bugs me reason. The part where alcohol will kill you is not the only reason to quit drinking. It fucks over your life in so very many ways before that. It makes you hurt other people. Deciding to quit drinking is rarely about simple avoidance of death. So it shouldn't be such a general Thing to decide that if you can't die you may as well drink. I mean, I'm not calling it an implausible story, it's just a deeply fucked up stupid reaction.

... I can totally understand Jack getting drunk. I have long considered his sobriety to be a Thing. He drinks water with care and conscious choice, I figured. Lately, throwing it all away, duty and Cardiff and Earth, he probably chucked that too. Makes sense. Blame it on new mortality if he wants, but he's been doing the stupid thing for a while. Even without considering House of the Dead canon. So, he goes, he gets drunk, he has sex, he gets lonelier for it. Figures.

Stupid, but figures.



I need to get my brain a new track. I've tried listening to music and reading stuff but my brain remains unhelpful.


Since CoE I have spent a truly ridiculous amount of time and brain space going over the whole thing and thinking on where+when I, if I had time travel, and lived in the appropriate universe, knowing what I know, would intervene to make everything turn out different. It's not a one point intervention. You can't just step in on the last day unless you just bring an alternate kid. There need to be alternatives, and to build them is beyond my skills, so there need to be a team to build them. The simplest way to acquire team is to keep the existing team alive, since alternatives involve persuading Jack to have new team, and he could have if he were at all inclined. To keep the team alive probably involves fixing Gray's life, only there's a slight problem with Jack and his convoluted timeline. Even ignoring the theory that presence of immortal Jack sawed a hole in spacetime and made the rift in the first place, he's in too many places at once to move him without making a paradox. Of course if I was part of that universe and tried to travel back and save even one life then that would make paradox, but since I'm from an alternate it's just a gingerbread house situation, where it looks all tempting and possible but is secretly sticky tricksy. But Jack, having doubled back on himself a ridiculous number of times, is incredibly difficult to untangle. So to some extent I'd have to say sod it and risk it, unless I could get a proper expert in. Also, there are technologies that abbreviated the lifespans of Jack, Ianto and Gwen. The thing with Torchwood India. So even if nothing happened to kill Ianto, he'd probably have dropped dead of running out of life. Which would be a bit of a bugger, really.

So my plan involves getting to the Doctor right after Martha gives him her phone and leaves. I could get him to double check the plan was remotely possible, and to monitor the spacetime continuum in case it gets messed up. Then I get him to be the reason Gray disappears. I can't make it so Gray doesn't disappear, since that was a formative influence for Jack and almost certainly part of why he was a time traveller and hence met the Doctor and kept him alive long enough for me to meet.

And I can't do any of this before the Doctor meets Jack again as an immortal, because bouncing around Jack's timeline discovering an immortal person before he knows Jack could sort of obligate the Doctor to fix the universe so this anomaly doesn't happen. which would be a major problem in project make Jack happy. and persuading the Doctor to meet Jack during that bit of his life where he knows Jack is immortal but keeps running away from him is, well, unlikely. So right after he's offered Jack travel again would be pretty much the first time you could get the Doctor involved with Jack's life without messing stuff up.

So, the Doctor becomes the reason Gray disappears. No more bombs. No more nuclear meltdown. Unless, of course, that was not in fact Gray. But it is a bit of a win anyway, because if Jack knows that is not Gray, then he will be more active in stopping him. Still, lets hope it would fix the bombs.

We need somewhere to put Gray. Putting him with Jack is problematic, not least because then he'd be doing parenting rather than Torchwood. But also because he'd have a kid right there when the Very Bad Week happens. It might make a helpful difference to do tests early, but it might also put Gray in harms way. Lets not. The angst would still be epic. Make him Steven's little brother and tell Alice all about the Very Bad Thing. That way they'll both be being looked after by someone who can stand up to Jack and be pretty sure he won't shoot her. Also, having been warned, she can get gone when the kids start talking.

That would quite possibly end the world though. I mean, if Jack saved the world, then removing the people involved would probably end it.

But if there's no explosions and no Gray doing bad things then Tosh lives, and many new and interesting technical things become a possibility. And if there's no meltdown then it becomes safe to try and save Owen. Keeping him alive without fixing the bombs just means he dies along with Cardiff. Bit of a problem.

Telling Martha to get out when ordered would be a logical fix for Owen's bad day, but she was already told. Telling Owen to push her into the car and keep out of Jack's line of fire has more chance of success.

Of course then he gets killed by (a) the shapeshifter and (b) the breath stealing film dudes. Also breaking in to the old guy's house gets more complex. He had some dangerous stuff in there, even if the shiny thing turned out nice. Plus, if he's alive, he's not going to have the same conversation with the lady on the roof. Problem again.

Saving Owen would be a full time job all year, really.

Plus just knowing stuff was going to happen in advance doesn't make it completely simples to fix. Often everyone was trying their best to fix it at the time. Lots of running around and screaming is involved even once things are figured out.

If Owen and Tosh survive all the way up to the Very Bad Week then they still might get blown up. Or arrested. Or they might not be able to think of anything to fix the situation.


To avoid the getting blown up parts, Jack needs to not have been involved in the 456 situation the first time around. Then there's nothing in his file to make them decide it's time to silence him.

So, send Captain John Hart (note the sarcasm). Good bait for John demonstrably includes (a) Captain Jack Harkness and (b) shiny things. Good and plausible bait to get Jack to cooperate with him may involve him pretending to still be a time agent, or just doing time tech-y things. Torchwood India has time technology and pays its bills in shiny rubies. Dealt with far enough back they don't develop the technology to leach off lives. Even if they have it, they're drawing on far fewer far less frequently. So it won't chew up Torchwood agent lives if they fix it back before. Send Hart to get Jack out of the way from that 456 situation - all he did was drive a bus, he's replaceable there - and they can have a caper in India and maybe get some rubies and possibly have a ridiculous affair and get it out of his system in 1965.

I have seen the assumption that 1965 456 incident is somehow connected with Alice's mother. No.
The kill order is for everyone that was involved in that.

ORDER TO KILL
Colonel Michael Sanders (ret)
Ellen Hunt
Captain Andrew Staines
Captain Jack Harkness (active)

And Alice's mother is Lucia Moretti. Not on that list.
Of course she was already dead, but

Mother: Lucia Moretti
Torchwood Operative, 1968-1975
Date of birth 18/06/1945
Date of death 23/11/2006. Heart Disease

She wasn't a Torchwood operative in 1965.

Also, I suspect that's meant to be 2006 by the same timeline that makes Gwen have joined in 2006, because then Jack had a very depressing year indeed. And clearly he needs more angst.

ANYway... 1965, send Hart to fix Torchwood India and distract Jack. No need to blow up Jack. Many things can be different.



But, 1965 wasn't the only reason. If the government trusted Jack then they'd trust him to keep his mouth shut. So there's an accumulation of reasons. Times he didn't report to them. Times he phoned up to tell them off for telling secrets, however right he turned out to be about Saxon. His general attitude that they were neither his bosses nor particularly relevant to him. When someone has the keys to all the shiniest weapons yet known to humanity, that kind of attitude tends to bug people.

And one incident that was probably seriously unhelpful is the one with the Reset.

JACK: Normally, Aaron, we go where we like.
COPLEY: Not here, actually. Ask Whitehall. We're fireproof.
JACK: Yeah. I had a bad experience with a politician recently. I tend not to listen to Whitehall any more.

And then they end up trashing the place and killing Copley.
If he was right about the Whitehall thing? That would piss off a lot of people.
Even if he was wrong, Jack is going around telling people straight up he no longer listens to politicians.

Hence, Jack go boom.



Fixing that may well be beyond the ken of mere mortals. I mean, getting Jack to do politics? Yow.
Possibility the first involves hiring someone specifically to be a liaison.
... this being Jack, I'm now thinking of the interview process.
... and the post interview retcon.
... Jack is quite disturbing, really.

But if one could get Jack to run a con on the government... the details would depend on how early you get to him. If we're post Saxon then there's a lot that depends on what got covered up and what stayed publicly true. Probably not much remained public.

Getting in good with politicians is a tricky beast at best. You can't make it look like they can buy you, because they know public service doesn't pay well compared to selling out. So it has to be about intangibles. Things that they can give, that only they can give, that are low cost to them, but you can at least persuade them are high value to you. Promotions, for instance. Jack has been a Captain too long to sell that one though. Also he tends to promote himself. Public recognition is a tricky one for a secret project. And, again, he's been keeping himself secret for so long it's a tough sell. Recognition for his people is likely closer to his heart and an easier sell. It does mean letting his team be the strings that connect him to government, and hence getting yanked around a lot. Personal recognition, appreciation, being seen for his own qualities, that's a bit distinct from promotions or the other sorts of recognition. Reckon he could see that he's been underappreciated for years and just wants some acknowledgement. But the politicians don't get much out of that, assuming they don't inherently value his continued service, which since there was kaboom seems a good assumption. The good politics trick involves persuading everyone you need and value their advice, and then if you can manage it that all your plans were their idea. Secretly what you wanted to do was always what they wanted to do. Their goals are best achieved by doing things this way. And they thought of it.
Like I said, it's con artistry. Jack should be good at it.

(It's social skills, I would be very bad at it.)

Running the same con on every political party at once? Yowza, big trick.

Certain policies seem to manage it in the real world though.


So, save the team, make it so they make nice enough they don't get blown up, take out the reasons for blowing stuff up, make that whole week turn out different.

... difficult to see how it would be different. It was pulled out of nowhere at the last second and didn't make much sense, so you can't make it make different sense or use the logic in a different direction.

Just bringing a different kid would be soul destroying, but possible.

One interesting thing though is to wonder what happens if it gets that far and Ianto is still alive. (Tell Ianto to pack a gas mask. Or a biohazard suit. Or to just stay outside, cause did he do anything that made a difference in there?) Would his reactions change that moment? Would keeping him alive doom the world?
Well yes, if RTD was writing it, he's very doomy.

It don't seem right to me that the last minute was a last minute. I mean, wouldn't the Shadow Proclamation have something to say about taking all them people, if it couldn't come down to Earth to take that one prisoner? It's a kidnapping, not a mass murder. Though then you have to weigh the kidnapping and torture of very very many against the death of one. It's ugly maths.

Ugly story. Not helpful. Doesn't map to world problems.

Change the whole story to map to something and it can turn out many different ways.

I thought for a while the story would be the kids, the ones all in the life support machines, coming back to make people notice their governments were giving kids to aliens. That makes sense of the very loud way they did it. Nothing much else does. I mean, why get people to gather the kids? Schools do that anyway. Boo. Arbitrary constraints and illogical aliens.

If you add in House of the Dead then keeping Ianto alive becomes a problem.
Unless, as I observed in that review, Jack brings a timer.


Of course I do know this is nuts. I mean, I'm in this universe. I can stop thinking about this. Any time now. Really.

... then my brain will pick another groove. I don't know which yet, I just know it always has something to chew on.



I get fed up of stories which just kill people and make their lives miserable. that's easy. that's the problem you set up at the start of the story. The tricky story, the good one, the ones we need quite often, that's the story of how to keep people alive and well and happy. Just stating the problem is rubbish. I want to fix things.

... I'm not very good at fixing things.
*sigh*

Date: 2011-08-09 05:48 am (UTC)
kickair8p: Jack as Brad, 10 as Dr Scott (JackBrad)
From: [personal profile] kickair8p
I'm liking your fix-it thoughts, especially the Gray-rescuing. With the resources you're marshaling, here's an idea: strengthen the child used as a conduit. Might even be easier if it's Steven, being descended from Immortal!Jack.

Re Owen, the whole King of the Weavils thing was supposed to be something drastically different before it got bundled into Dead!Owen, possibly related to the empathic connection he seemed to get with that spacewhale. Wonder if that'd help keep him alive?

~

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beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
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