beccaelizabeth's dreamwidth journal

Have finished watching the last season of Legends of Tomorrow.

On the one hand I definitely cared about the characters and what they were going through
but on the other I'm not sure I liked it.

Especially since I did like season one and the more I think about it the more season 7 is what happens if season one never made a difference. I mean ( Read more... )


Legends shenanigans are fun to roll with, but the series suffered because the ethics depends on the physics, and they never defined the physics.

Season 7 addresses the origins of time travel, and reckons that any time traveller interfering with the fixed points that are the cause of the origin of time travel would simply fade away. Cease to exist. So, they conclude, nobody could do it, and guarding it is useless.

But, there's more than one sort of time travel. Even only counting what was invented on Earth.

If you count all the tech as fundamentally one method, ignoring the obvious differences between the Waverider and the Time Couriers as different branches of one tech, that still leaves Speedsters and Magic users. Whatever the time stone was, that's not something that was invented in WWI. Speedsters get born and then struck by lightning, they don't exactly have intellectual property to set up. ... the version where a particle accelerator explosion is necessary to kick it off does have a lot more tech, but not specifically time travel tech as far as we know.

So the tech users cannot interfere with the origins of their own tech without interfering with their ability to interfere. That's paradoxical.

But speedsters can do as they please, and the time stone and the paradox demon, and aliens with different history of tech behind them, and that is a non trivial amount of possibilities.

And all of them could gain assorted powers out of doing so, a political edge or a greater degree of control for their own people.

Same way the only way it makes sense to get Time Masters is if they bring the development of time travel tech in house so only Time Masters have time travel. Kind of like how they recruited Stein, I've been saying from the start, the only way to have the control is to keep all the ideas to yourself. They call the rest time pirates, Mike calls them Time Bandits, it's implying a hierarchy of legitimate vs illegitimate time travel. And the only way to enforce that is to be the only one with the tech.

When they're not, you get edit wars.

Fixers have superior time tech.

But Eobard didnt need it in order to do exactly what he was doing. If he had his speed he could have moved between frames too. So the writers juwt threw in fixer tech and pulled out speedster complications.

You could try controlling speedsters by getting them all at birth but everything with Eobard suggests you'd get older versions of them turning up fresh out of the speed force and deeply annoyed. So they're going to stay free even if their timelines get erased.

Time Wraiths get invoked to tidy that up.

Still leaves demons, and whatever Dark's stone was, but that got some applied retcon in the Flash.

Shouldnt be practically possible to control time travel with the variety of powers and methods they've shown. But they're doing it anyway, by the end.



They also never define 'the' timeline. The Flash keeps making new ones and Legends keeps saying 'the'. Can't argue the ethics until you've got the facts.

And what does it do to change the timeline? If it destroys a universe, problem. If it makes everyone take a do over until every editor thinks things are perfect, different problem. If it creates a new branch of the multiverse, very different problem if problem at all. And different stories imply different things in the same 'verse, so, difficult to argument.



See I feel like season 7 set up worlds of new problem for next season. Except there is no new season. So instead it's done a full circle futility problem.


... I never like how the story treats Eobard Thawne and I know that's... quirky.


I actually can make Story out of the idea that Crisis created multiple copies of Thawne, from the memories of different people, and they end up with different values. So there's this 'lawful' one that is Sarah's idea of an improvement and the one in the Flash that is Barry's nightmare and the one in the Flash that is the blank slate the actual history or lack thereof makes of him.


But it's just clumsy writing that doesnt expect us to care. So.



I have the next season of the Flash because I bought the full series box set of blu ray when it came out, but I'm not actually looking forwards to it.

I need to find stories where there's a vague possibility they'll agree with me what a happy ending looks like.



Or make them.

This morning I had a dream that made me realise I was avoiding watching Legends of Tomorrow in case I don't like the endings and it ceases to be my happy place.
(It wasn't about that, it was about a timeline change which resulted in alien plants taking root all over the world so by the present day all churches were ruined, the alien plants were in every graveyard and playground, and you went to the Good Neighbours to get your brain chemistry sucked so you only had happy thoughts and felt shiny and beautiful. But, because Legends were in it, it also made me think.)

So I have started watching Legends of Tomorrow season six.

Everything I read about the choice they made with Gary is still a valid point. ( Read more... ) Don't reckon it was done maliciously, just... *waves generally at Legends*. This is the show where everything is true at once, so, stuff happens a lot.
Still, could do better.

The way the characters keep changing around does leave me with less to obsess about. I have no deep thoughts about Behrad, for instance, and tend not to dream about him. Still dreaming Mick on the regular though.

But, good things: so far I have watched most of the first disc, and I had fun watching each episode. There are bits that are just giggles and there are bits of high stakes save the world and there are times they mix those together. It is fun.

... I think maybe I liked earlier seasons better, but, fun is good.

Today I finally watched the last disc of the latest season of Legends of Tomorrow, season 5.

It only took this long because the year we've been having has not left me with spare brain for that much sensory input. Also I am looking forwards to my back not feeling like this any time now. By the last episode what I was mostly thinking is my recliner has turned secretly evil and there's no way to sit any more that is not distractingly ow. But that is in no way the fault of the show.

I still love this show.

It throws so much together and cares not one whit for genre and does stuff that absolutely shouldnt work and then makes you care about it.

And while I could always stand to see more Mick I love the story he got this year and how ( Read more... )

Saving the world to a very Legends soundtrack... you just dont get those scenes on other shows.

And then swooping to the absolutely serious, with every bit of the family stuff.

It is so great.




And now I'm going to stay lying down for ... actually my back feels fine already. Cool.



So: still my favourite show, even though it is hard to focus after all this all.

So far this year I have watched one disc of season 5 of Legends of Tomorrow, up as far as A Head of Her Time.

I like it. The tonal shifts seem bigger and Constantine is living a whole different genre to everyone else, but it is telling story nowhere else does and it is fun.

I've been feeling down lately and not really watching tv so I think liking it and feeling a bit flat is doing pretty well vs background.


... but I also miss Snart and look forwards to Rory getting decent story some more, and I did not like how the writing thing got jettisoned so easily. Show feels like it keeps getting younger and moving away from what I was watching. Ah well.

Pretty good year so far.

I just watched Legends of Tomorrow as far as Seance and Sensibility.
... this show keeps making me have Feelings by doing things that should be completely ridiculous. It swings between hilarious and horror in the same five minutes. Big feels workout.

... weirdly, that is more realistic. I mean, real life doesnt have a genre. Stuff happens on top of other stuff in the middle of more stuff. Like trying to figure out how to react to a media feed. It's all smushed together.

But on LoT it has a theme and a satisfying and cathartic emotional payoff, so, you know, that's a very good trick.

Legends of Tomorrow continues to be good
and nuts
I have seen the Custodians of Chronology, Sirens of Space Time, and Puppets of Tomorrow
and they all basically make sense within the setup of the verse
which is a level of nuts I have not seen other shows achieve.

But it's also got real and heavy about grief and guilt, and the story is building momentum
and basically it is half past ten at night and I want to watch another episode.

Every time that one guy walks across the background and smiles it's like epic shudder time.

Legends really takes great swooping leaps in tone. And mixes them together so they work.

Is great.

Just watched the episode where Mick got the Book of Brigid.
( Read more... )

season three disc three
they just did the rat funeral
... Legends really goes the places other shows do not reach, and then makes you have feelings about it.


The real world is still Way Too Hot and the fan noise is way too loud, so I am not at my most appreciative, but these are still good stories

Like the whole Dark family drama is just such an excellent redemption arc, and Ray is really getting his paladin on. Kidnapped and tortured and he still sees the best in her.

... it's actually less cool Nate saying it's because he fancies her, but *shrugs*


Amaya figuring out who she is without her family legacy is the light side version of all that.


And I like Mick getting his storyteller on. I disliked the way Legion!Leonars treated him because if that was what their partnership was like Mick was wrong when he told people about it. But today I'm thinking, it was a good story, and a better version. Seeing the best in him. And now using storytelling to give Amaya a boost, as well as all the formal typing stuff. It's a good development.

Legends really never gives up on people, even while telling stories about grief with no easy reset button.


I still really like this show.

rewatch got to There Are No Strings On Me.
... it was less miserable sad this time because I have elanorate fixits in my head already so canon not agreeing with me is only sad.

I noticed several points where my memory was an imperfect match, which is i teresting because I think about these stories a lot. At some point my wandered out of canon and remained vivid.
( Read more... )

I like the twisty loops of season one but I very much liked them breaking out of them.

I shall watch more tomorrow.

Okay, had more sleep and more food, and surprisingly enough life looks shinier from here.

Been rewatching Legrnds of Tomorrow season one, which is part of why things feel time loopy. Been wanting to fix that ending since season one.

This time around I am putting different weight on different actions, so none of the characters are coming out of this looking good right now. They've all grown so much since then they're looking mostly dysfunction.

Len in particular is tricky. ( Read more... )

I dreamt Mick was trying to go somewhere in the present day and everyone was all suspicious, especially about the bolt cutters so he had to leave those behind
so they/we followed him to an out of the way mansion
that looked abandoned
except for this one weird glow that came out of a hole in the ground
and when we got close enough to that, we found him
trying to free
a chained up unicorn
with a horn glowing like a lightsaber.

I know Legends did unicorns and getting rusty chains off that one seems like a Mistake
but this one seemed nice?
And far from the only magical creature confined down there.

There were Aeslin Mice.

So this... basement? Cliff edge basement? I want to say grotto. It had stairs leading in from outside so you needn't go in the house to get in. And it was dusty and gave an impression of being overgrown, like you wouldn't want to look too hard in the shadows maybe.

But Mick had gone back after an Adventure - probably a long time after on the calendar - because he'd figured out where it was and how to get in and you couldn't just leave everything trapped like that.

Only technically it is still breaking and entering, because on paper someone still owns the place even after the mansion's magic is broken and the owners vanquished.

So while the police man was going back to the car for bolt cutters (and probably trying to talk himself into having seen a horse)

I asked Mick, exactly how rich was he getting from his books?

And he grinned, and sent some messages
and by the time the police got back
this had been Rebecca Silver's mansion all along.

Haven't slept much, they're doing things to the floors and it is much banging.

Dreamt I was trapped in a house with Captain Cold, and we had to call in the Rogues to help, but Mick brought the Legends too. And Mick was from After, so he was all angst. Like, he was pretty sure he was going to save Len that day, but he'd have to let him go again too, and this is not his best day.

Also, the bad thing? It was frozen deep cold when Mick got there, but somehow still moving. So he hit it with the heat gun, and when it thawed? Len!

Mimic things are the worst.

So we were in this house, lots of statues and shiny stuff, looked like the rich stuff house. But everything was doubled. Mirrored, exactly and precisely. Bilaterally symmetrical house, windows, doors, landings you could see the inner lobby from. Two of everything, down to the rugs.

( Read more... )



So, mirrored house full of mirror Bad Thing.

I didn't come up with a reason for the mimic thing, maybe all the backwards versions get possessed or something.

But there's plenty of meaty plot in there.

Last night I dreamt a Mick/Ray plot bunny
which, no, Ray blew that, you don't propose partnership and then go off with the new guy like it's nothing
but
Mick and Ray nearly got blown up and finally kissed
but
then Ray found a ring around his neck with his fiancee's name and a date
and further investigation revealed
something they had just done had changed the timeline enough
she hadn't died.

And as a plot bunny that is excellent.

Because one, she's now a time aberration, but like Lily she's one the Legends are going to really not want to undo.

Two, it's a great chance to explore Ray's urge to be a hero, the ridiculous oversupply of fridged women, and how much of a difference Ray has made in the world.
Seeing as Ray's thing is he always feels he's been too small to make a difference
and he has to be the Atom to do so
there's a lot of angles and mileage there.
Maybe he gets to see a world where he was never the Atom and it all went horribly wrong
but that is most boring
so
make it so his crew tell him all the ways it would go horribly wrong without him
and then have him look at history
and
nothing much has changed.
So at first he's super depressed. He really never did make a difference. Woe is him.
Also opportunity to beat himself up for not saving her before
given that time can apparently weather it
and it made no odds to him.
But, he eventually notices, unlike when Star Wars never got made, he still has both his knowledge and his suit.
It isn't that time hasn't caught up with him.
And it turns out that seeing his city get wrecked? Repeatedly? Even without any more personal loss, was enough to get him on the exact same path, trying to save people.

Turns out some humans just like saving other humans, say if they've been literal boy scouts their whole lives, it don't take a tragedy.

But,
three,
now there's Mick. Being dumped again. For someone's revived beloved, which has to hurt extra. He has his own ring and it isn't changing. Mick would be miserable.
And Ray is merely clueless about humans, not actively a jerk to his dates, so he would care.
But he's married. So no more kissing.
But them there's a peculiar paradox, in that a Ray who was that monogamously married wouldn't have been there with Mick doing kissing, wouldn't have nudged the timeline in such a way that he was married, so would have kissed, so wouldn't, so would...
... which is a headache inducing oscillating paradox such as time really can't be having with.
But it's not giving any headaches?
Memory headaches for Ray, sure, but nobody seems to be forgetting anything.

So it turns out the solution to paradox is polyamory.

Ray's wife knows perfectly well that he tends to collect people, and is better friends with some of his exes than he is now. And it's not like she would be spending Waverider time with him anyway. So she's fine with Mick.

And Mick...


... see that's where the whole thing falls apart from my point of view. Mick's partner should be his *partner*, not a part timer. He's the one reaching out, it should work some time.

But he's immediately switching to advice for the new partners when Ray goes off with Nate, so we know he's generous like that.

I just think he could do better.

But hey, plot bunny, many useful angles.