beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)

season with 22 episodes, 19 writers, and fanart drawn covers for each ep.
variable quality but i liked a lot of it. even where it could do with some proofreading it had interesting ideas. much more varied and interesting settings. and the character arcs seemed much more satisfying to me, definitely tried to pay off what they set up. the ending left me :-D

good to read.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
Last night I dreamt a Mick/Ray plot bunny
which, no, Ray blew that, you don't propose partnership and then go off with the new guy like it's nothing
Mick and Ray nearly got blown up and finally kissed
then Ray found a ring around his neck with his fiancee's name and a date
and further investigation revealed
something they had just done had changed the timeline enough
she hadn't died.

And as a plot bunny that is excellent.

Because one, she's now a time aberration, but like Lily she's one the Legends are going to really not want to undo.

Two, it's a great chance to explore Ray's urge to be a hero, the ridiculous oversupply of fridged women, and how much of a difference Ray has made in the world.
Seeing as Ray's thing is he always feels he's been too small to make a difference
and he has to be the Atom to do so
there's a lot of angles and mileage there.
Maybe he gets to see a world where he was never the Atom and it all went horribly wrong
but that is most boring
make it so his crew tell him all the ways it would go horribly wrong without him
and then have him look at history
nothing much has changed.
So at first he's super depressed. He really never did make a difference. Woe is him.
Also opportunity to beat himself up for not saving her before
given that time can apparently weather it
and it made no odds to him.
But, he eventually notices, unlike when Star Wars never got made, he still has both his knowledge and his suit.
It isn't that time hasn't caught up with him.
And it turns out that seeing his city get wrecked? Repeatedly? Even without any more personal loss, was enough to get him on the exact same path, trying to save people.

Turns out some humans just like saving other humans, say if they've been literal boy scouts their whole lives, it don't take a tragedy.

now there's Mick. Being dumped again. For someone's revived beloved, which has to hurt extra. He has his own ring and it isn't changing. Mick would be miserable.
And Ray is merely clueless about humans, not actively a jerk to his dates, so he would care.
But he's married. So no more kissing.
But them there's a peculiar paradox, in that a Ray who was that monogamously married wouldn't have been there with Mick doing kissing, wouldn't have nudged the timeline in such a way that he was married, so would have kissed, so wouldn't, so would...
... which is a headache inducing oscillating paradox such as time really can't be having with.
But it's not giving any headaches?
Memory headaches for Ray, sure, but nobody seems to be forgetting anything.

So it turns out the solution to paradox is polyamory.

Ray's wife knows perfectly well that he tends to collect people, and is better friends with some of his exes than he is now. And it's not like she would be spending Waverider time with him anyway. So she's fine with Mick.

And Mick...

... see that's where the whole thing falls apart from my point of view. Mick's partner should be his *partner*, not a part timer. He's the one reaching out, it should work some time.

But he's immediately switching to advice for the new partners when Ray goes off with Nate, so we know he's generous like that.

I just think he could do better.

But hey, plot bunny, many useful angles.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
So, have now seen the start of the Invasion.
I'd like to say it makes more sense now, but they seem to have chopped it into three different types of story, of stages, or something. It's a mind boggling jam packed rush even from the start.

Read more... )

They packed so much in the only bit I managed to properly care about was the Wally story. I don't get why Iris is on team lie to him though, you'd think someone on this show would learn. Well, Cisco has, but still. Ugh.

Yaay Kid Flash, and please to be telling him reasonable reasons, like he needs training and experience that are not dreams.

The appearance of the newspaper though... if they can even check that, what has happened to their Gideon, how much future knowledge is in there, and what reason other than temporal can of worms do they have to not use it for research? Even focused so it won't tell them tomorrow, what is it they're ignoring? More than just a page.

The change was good.

But it still mentions Reverse Flash, and I want to see if/when *that* changes.

Like, Reverse Flash was obsessed with that page for a reason. Top of my list of theories? It's his own personal future, a headline he hasn't participated in yet, so keeping that on track means he has a tomorrow.

Second is he knows the significance of the red skies.

Reverse Flash being undone should screw up that day along with all the rest. Grandfather paradox is a problem, not a solution.

... I am focused on the wrong bits.

Alien Invasion setup achieved. Now to wait for Arrow so I can see the middle...

... and in the meantime, watch more Flash.


Sep. 6th, 2017 11:56 am
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
If Legion!Len was pulled from the timeline before he decided to go get Mick
we're seeing the difference between Captain Cold deciding he needs a partner, going to him with a gift, asking for his company
and Legion!Leonard told he needs the Spear, going to Mick, to try and get something from him.

Very different attitude, very different results.

If you add in that a probable reason for the breakup was Mick getting distracted by the fire and Len not wanting to burn with him? Maybe he left because he thought Mick was dangerous, would mean he burns eventually, and the Legion told him he was right...
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
That was a mess.

That was a caricature of Snart. Read more... )

So after that season I'm a bit borderline on if I like the show. I like Mick, and how much meaty emotional story he's been getting. But I don't like what happened to his partner, or how they mess us around with all the signs and signifiers of a love relationship, the ring, the saying love you, and then just hand us that as an ending. They retcon his whole relationship to be something we're meant to cheer him walking away from. I don't see why they want to do that. The end of last season gave us a problem of Mick being sad, but making like he shouldn't have been is not a solution I'm willing to swallow.

Still, Mick says Leonard becomes a better man. He still believes in them. After all that.


There's potential plot bunny in how they left him. Read more... )

The first season had a pretty good plot made of closed time loop.

... although logically the Hawks could never have killed Savage in their own past without making themselves not be born, but, they didn't, so not noticing that was on Rip and part of the cunning predestination plan.

But the whole first season was about breaking away from predestination and building better lives.

Second season is about keeping everything the same while team evil tries to save their families and their own lives.

Why were we meant to change sides on that issue?

So I am not sold on this show.

And the entire ethics of it depend on laws of time that just don't stay still to figure out.

But they do find new and interesting ways to break them, so hey, that could be interesting.

:eyeroll: *sigh*

I am looking forwards to the fanfic far more than to the next season.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
That was not Leonard Snart. The 'good boy' stuff sucked and seemed ooc compared to all else we've seen, but it wasn't the most fundamental part. Captain Cold is, in this episode, scared of going up against a speedster.

What do the writers think he does for a living?

Read more... )

Last but by no means least
if the new plan is to go time travel to before the Spear was broken
what exactly was the point of chasing around after broken pieces all season?

All they'd need to do is get the Spear from slightly before it was broken, use it for whatever, and put it back where Rip was going to find it, and time wouldn't even notice you'd been there.

If the Spear doesn't have some special power to write protect its own history then the entire season plot is a bust.

OTOH I can see the Spear still being indestructible, just all its component atoms are either streaming in the atmosphere or hanging in the middle of a super hot reactor.

... but Mick's gun reaches absolute hot, so should have been able to do the exact same thing to it.

... I hate it when comics can't keep track of their own made up physics.

Didn't like the episode, don't see how it told us much interesting about the characters, mind controlled into humiliating situations isn't exactly revealing, Snart was so far out of character and Mick either didn't wish for anything or
only wished for Leonard.

... :(

... okay, that's pretty sad.

And then he couldn't kill him even after he'd seen him kill.
But that goes both ways, Len tied himself to serving Eobard just to keep Mick alive, and he didn't ice him or even threaten him back after stopping Amaya.

Even ooc they're a tragedy.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
This whole celebrity history thing is not my speed. This week they explain that Tolkien was secretly mostly quoting? There's a lot about the whole setup that didn't work for me.

On the other hand: Mick and Len.
Finally, more or less actual Len.
... the more or less being the frustrating part.

Read more... )
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
That was ridiculous.
And not in a way I personally can roll with and find funny.
Humans doing those jobs do not work like that, so the whole thing is just... no.

The Heywood strands of the story are obviously emotionally affecting, but any noble sacrifice that could be fixed with a basic safety precaution like seatbelt or safety line is on I can't feel the way the writers meant me to.

Also, whoever wrote this understands physics even less than comic books usually do. Including comic book physics.

Read more... )

Episode was made of interesting parts that just didn't grab me.

... I like Legends of Tomorrow, but I'm thinking I increasingly like it as a lego kit.

... not least because I know which parts I'm not going to like at all...
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
The story clearly respects Mick. He keeps coming up with relevant knowledge, in this case knowledge of Time Master procedures that calls back to his Horrible Trauma, and reaching out emotionally to help other people and especially help them maintain their partnerships. Even after repeated rebuffs and being treated like trash by some of them.

The story respects Mick, the Legends do not, and man I want to see them all slapped for it.

Which makes it difficult to care about the other threads of the story. Read more... )

I like Mick a lot more than I like his friends, but Mick also needs to stop drinking and threatening people, so I can see where they're coming from.

If this ship had a Counsellor then like 90% of the plot would be fixable with 2000% less drama.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
Read more... )

I think I liked all the episodes Camelot parts if I don't think about them too hard.

And I love the bits with Mick.


Sep. 2nd, 2017 12:48 am
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
I've been reading Clint/Coulson fic
after reading Mick/Len
and a splash of Steve/Bucky.

We have there three (3) brainwashed soldiers forced to fight for their worst enemy against their best friends and the man they love
(at least for these parings purposes)

I've mentioned before that I find it super creepy that we keep on telling these stories where a soldier really is just following orders. I know it's also about resisting and breaking free even under the worst pressure, but it's a creepy setup, to show them doing violence and then basically argue they couldn't help it.

But the fic that deals with the fallout has three different takes on what is basically the same story, and they're all about angles and emphasis. Clint is angsty because of who he let die, Bucky because of who he killed, and Mick? Mick barely gets those years (decades? lifetimes?) touched on in fic. He's just grieving his partner, the man who left him to be captured, the man he tried to hate, and couldn't.

Clint should feel shit about people he actually killed, more often than fic cares to deal with it. Bucky is all in the timing, but for a while there he and the world believe Steve died without him (depending on canon). Mick... should have more trauma?

I mean canon shows us the Chronos making, very like the Bucky chair, and gives us Mick having flashbacks when answering a question that goes too closely there. But that whole Chronos era is not a characteristic concern of the fanfic I've found to read. And when it is it resolves as fast as canon does, with missing scenes mostly written between first broadcast episodes. The fandom doesn't chew it the same way.

You can argue Mick isn't a real introspective guy, but he does drink explicitly because "more drinking less feeling", so that's some issues there.

And you can't say other people don't have a problem with him. They have weird half expressed anger with him, and seem to just file Chronos as a whole other person, but that means ignoring his skills and the thing where he on his own had the whole team running scared. But then Mick ignores that too. Which, again, issues. Man can fly the Waverider but makes faces and really seems to try not to. Man doesn't wear armour, despite obvious practical benefits. Man doesn't use any of Hronos' weapons, badass though they were. And Chronos wasn't allowed to be drunk.

Mick's running hard.

But fanfic... has other concerns.

It's just interesting, the takes we have on them all.

And maybe there's Mick fic I'm not finding that isn't Mick/Len. People that don't see the pairing are going to have a very different idea of how humans work.

But he has all this angst bait, and it's not in the fic, on the whole.

Not complaining, just the comparison struck me.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
That was very American. Like, *very* American.

And a reminder that Rip and his accent never do read the same way both sides of the pond. Colonial oppression and part of him being Lawful Evil Slytherin. Which is difficult to remember when he's the one who sounds closest to normal.

Rip's brainwashing was most storyline effective when most plausible. His summary of the miseries of history and conclusion you might as well burn it all down, his pitch about dead relatives being returned to them, that's plausible without the machine. Which makes it frustrating the machine is involved. It's all very well splitting him up into heart and dark side, but it's all going to go away because shiny lights tech, so then it's blah.

Mick got some respect this time. And a speech about real Americans, as if any of that is uniquely American. Outcasts as a good thing for yaays. Congratulations from a founding father. And a statue of his own. :-)

... Sarah listing his statue as one of the ungood things they've just dealt with? References to Rory as the drunk uncle of the family, while continuing to ignore it outside of jokes? It's just niggly dripping bullying and I want to slap them all. All the 'it was implied' about saving Rory too, it's affecting their work, adversely.

Nate and Amaya have no excuses and might have borked all of history because they took time out for sex. I just... they are utterly incompetent, and I didn't think Amaya was incompetent before. Maybe Nate has a field. Why would they even? Ugh.

Also this show has a wonky idea of how long it takes to grieve and move on. All these shows actually, people don't stay single long. Well, women don't.


Jax was win. I have no complaints about Jax.

Mick, Ray and the rat was a fun thread. Ray poking Mick and Mick just twisting his arm around and Ray being "I have overstepped" is... like, yes he had, but Mick was also a teensy too violent. Just a bit. So I can see why people still have a problem with him. His behaviour is problematic, even if it has an internally consistent ruleset. ... but it was kinda satisfying. Why was Ray even blaming Mick? How much time has Mick been spending in Ray's room to drop crumbs there?

... er, atomwave goggles are kind of easy again...

Mick making faces at his new rat friend is the cutest. Best pet, best faces.

I'm not especially keen on the 'family' xmas meal because they seem to forget characters religions, but it was the least religious it could be, I guess.

Episode did good things with Mick and interesting things with Rip.

Think I liked it.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
The simplest way to get post-Oculus Len back would be to have the Oculus explosion do to him what direct contact with the time drive did to Rip.

Could do that to all the Time Masters at the Vanishing Point if you wanted. Then the Legends didn't do a really big murder supernova, or they did but the effect was more a death of personality. So all the former Time Masters were time scattered and fobwatched, only their backups are as scattered as they are, if they exist at all.

Len would be living somewhere quietly with a whole new set of memories, so they can do that who he is at heart bit. And getting his 'real' memories back would be a bitch, after this many changes to the timeline, but since the Flash can go and pick him up whenever, they could do a copy paste from an earlier version, and he'd only lose... whenever was most dramatic, obviously.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
Grand name for these bickering bastards.

I kind of like how petty and easily divided they are. But Merlyn and Dark fighting just reminded me of Captains Harkness and Hart, and it therefore lacked a certain something in comparison.

Read more... )

The story is not doing what I wanted it to and the rules aren't as clear as I want them to be
and I purely don't understand why the crew makes a distinction between altered and unaltered and calls it fake and real.

I mean none of them have ever lived in an unaltered timeline. Do they not get that?

So it's all emotionally unsatisfying because they have a reaction I can't grok.

But the dead looking speedster is scary cool.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
I mean, don't get me wrong, the idea that the work of one man can inspire a generation to great heroism has obvious emotional appeal, I'm a writer and I get exactly why they wanted to write this.
But it's just... ugh.
The way they did it has too much of the self congratulatory back pat and I got bored.

The only bits of this I listened to with actual sound were the Mick story.

... many of us have been wanting to hear Mick say "I love you" to Len but not like this.

Read more... )

Why is brain injury and emotional trauma being used as a punchline?

Read more... )

It's frustrating me how the story is giving us all these heartbreaking pieces but seems to think it makes Mick frightening and funny. I just... I don't get what they think they're doing. And I don't like it.

Everyone's getting a lot of character stuff and emotional mileage, Sara and leadership and trying to live up to the past, Martin and his arrogant judgemental self making changes, Ray and Nate losing and finding themselves repeatedly, but Mick's is the most emotionally charged.

... and I know how it ends, and am not looking forwards to it.

beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
I'm kind of glad I saw so many spoilers and knew not to get my hopes up
because that was kind of a gut punch
what we wanted, in a way we'd never want.

Which is the temptation time travel dangles over all of them.

Read more... )
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
Well. That was... a lot of threads that came from nowhere and went who knows where.
As a stand alone it was lumpy and oddly paced, so it's probably only readable as a piece with the rest of the crossover.

Read more... )

So I can see there will be chewy stuff for all the characters when I get the other sections of this story, but as of right now, all I can say is it's nice to see Mick get appreciated

and weird through annoying the writers undercutting it by the whole 'hot' remark, much as Mick does appreciate hotness, and fun as it is to see Sara right there with him.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
I just started the next episode and it's the Invasion xover
and in the one minute 'previously' it just covered more plot ground... like obviously three other shows of plot, but a few key moments for Legends crew, so if you want to know how that bit worked out, you don't know what show it was on, you're going to have to watch them all.

And they aren't all in this set, funnily enough, and even though Legends was out first on DVD it's clearly not the first in the xover

So I can either watch it, and know how Invasion ends, or not watch until I gather the other parts, which will take... a while.

... I'm going to watch it now, I'm just kind of annoyed at the layout and delay having to change discs and all.

So I complain to the internet.

Like, I see how it worked in the original schedule
but this does not work, on DVD, at all.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
Mick, Sara, and Nate all had their own strands of this episode.
... I'm paying most attention to Mick, kind of 'of course' about Sara, and not enthralled about Nate.

Also I ate the rest of my birthday cake while watching and wow is that a lot of chocolate goo.
A Lot.
I maybe might have been distracted with chocolate crumb and dawning suspicion I shouldn't have has the last few bites.

This episode divides weirdly between things that are plausibly in character but I'm annoyed at the characters for them, and things that I'm annoyed at the writers for... though I guess those are plausibly in character too.

Both sets are about how people treat Mick.

Read more... )

There's a lot of threads and layers going on in here, and mostly I like it and want to see how it plays through.

I'm just annoyed at the Legends because if they're so anti Mick why are they keeping him around to risk himself? If they don't like him, why work with him? Do or do not, dudes. Be a team.

The whole Mick misses hanging out with criminals who appreciate him thread is getting well established.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
Been thinking
In season one where they introduce Mick we get the lines in 1-03

"You're not nearly as thick as most people say."

Mick: "Thick... does that mean stupid?"

And the obvious joke is Mick's so stupid he has to check he's being called stupid
which is ablist and annoying
and probably what's intended

But I see a lot of photos on tumblr tagged variant spellings on thick
and they're people roughly Mick's build

seems like he's being polite to check exactly how he's being insulted

plus of course the difference in public and private behaviour when he's annoyed contrasts the near literal scenery chewing while he's being arrested with a perfectly rational conversation with Len, even if the topic of said rational conversation is if they're going to kill and or beat crap out of each other

easiest read is he knows full well how he's perceived
and plays up to it
as part of a double act contrasting with Len

... everyone knows Len's the brains, and Mick's the volatile one. gives both of them cover in different situations, to do something smart while the other has the focus.

... sometimes I think the writers forget he has previously demonstrated skills, but that's a whole other problem, and depressing when you try and fit it in a Watsonian frame after all the damage Mick's been through.

Also, I have to say, nothing wrong with being thick in either way. Judgey people still competing for A grades long after relevance can miss that.


Aug. 28th, 2017 01:42 pm
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
It says in one episode the Waverider has 36 compartments.

That includes the bridge, possibly Rip's office off the bridge, the engine room, the library, individual cabins, a kitchen before and a big kitchen dining room now, the med bay, the room with the fabric fabricator, the bit around the exit door, and the secret compartment. ETA: And the cell Rip said wasn't for long term. /eta. Plus corridors, and who knows how Gideon counts those.

Which leaves you to wonder, why do they practice fight right next to the exit doors?

They built a huge great library, why is there no designated fighting area?

Also, it means every time Len was lounging around on the floor in a doorway or at the end of the stairs, he was doing so in preference to... all of that.

... the man is a pain in the arse cat.

I know the our universe reason is they hadn't built the sets, but it do leave some character consequences if it's actually pretty big in there.

Also they can plausibly pull anything out of storage if there's that much of it.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
I think I like the character beats, but the plot logic... even by superhero standards, surely thy shouldn't have been the only ones dealing with any of that?

Read more... )

So yeah, Amaya inconsistent, Martin and Sara and Ray self centered and emotion driven in drama ways, Mick needing a hug in his inimitable fashion, plenty good chewy character stuff.

I'm just a bit :eyeroll: how it's meant to fit together with their being anyone else at all who could be doing a thing.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
I think I liked it.

Read more... )

So that was watchable with feels and team stuff

... the atomwave Ray/Mick people got a lot to work with early on, too.

... anything not coldwave Len/Mick makes me sad, but, I can see it.

Onwards to more episodes...
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
Two white guys fall out of the sky and think they can fix everyone's problems?
Which Nate and Ray kind of created in the first place.

Read more... )

And all that said I didn't hate it especially, I just... get tired of the ways it failed.
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
This episode had many good qualities, adventure, excitement, Martin getting his arrogant assumptions knocked back
I kind of want to hit something.

Read more... )

Story had a lot of moving parts and kind of mostly juggled them.

Reverse Flash gets more annoying when he's killing JSA but only bribing nazis. I mean it ought to be just as easy to kill nazis and a lot more morally satisfying. But he is a bad guy.


beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)

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