Starting with me
May. 22nd, 2013 06:47 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethOn the subject of parity I just poked all my alt-Avengers ideas and found serious surfeit of men.
Writing slash is no excuse. There's more than two characters in the story, there should be more women.
I haven't thought of anything to do with Thor's entire kingdom though (except possibly turn Thor into a lightning puppy) so it's more like
Then it looks kind of like bloke, bloke's girl, bloke's bloke, next bloke. Like, if you start with a bloke and make other characters in relation to them you somehow end up with that 2:1 ratio.
I know there's a bunch more characters in the whole cinematic universe, I could list all the women in the Captain America stage things as separate characters, but once ported to a new 'verse with the serial numbers filed off they wouldn't be recognisable, or distinct from the women with the same function for Iron Man's stage show. For AUs you need characters who have been portrayed clearly enough they remain distinctive. I'm probably still forgetting people though.
Or I could make up new and interesting people. But honestly the cast in my head is mostly from my favourite series. Some are just my favourite actors. But if I try and invent people from scratch they just end up being Like Iron Man But anyway. Or whoever.
It would be really easy to import Buffy the Vampire Slayer to my 'verse that already has undead things. Including the parts where the undead things would kind of like you to stop treating them like things pls. But I'd be annoyed with Buffy, because she's all why can't I have a normal life why do I have to have power, and newsflash, everyone with a normal life is dealing with the exact same things they just tend to get killed by them quicker.
I kind of want to turn my Rhodey-alike into a woman. Possibly Gina Torres. Because every 'verse needs more Gina Torres. Then the War Machine armour, the big plate armour in historical AU, wouldn't change and they'd still be the tank that protects Tony's back, and also a woman.
Except in my head Tony and Rhodey are like platonic bffs but only because Tony only tries anything while drunk (which is unfortunately very frequent) and Rhodey kind of treats it like a puppy being overly familiar and shrugs him off, and Tony pretends he's not sad except for when he clowns big sad puppy eyes, and Rhodey's pretty sure he's only doing any of it because that's what he does with everyone and so he doesn't feel bad about mostly ignoring it. The guy's maybe his best friend, but still a guy, so that doesn't work. But Tony keeps trying.
So if you gender flip that then you have a totally different vibe. I mean, it's inappropriate to not take quit it for an answer either way, but it's different with two guys, the power balances are all different, Tony has money and privilege and being white but Rhodey has rank and strength and height and age, especially when they meet he'd not be the same age, if they met in college Tony was total puppy stage still. Add gender and it's a different mess entirely. So I don't know.
It reminds me one why I like slash actually, whatever power differences there are there isn't that one structuring one, other stuff can be explored without it saying things about gender, actual equality can be the assumed default setting.
I was thinking after I watched the most recent Bond films that I read some Bond/M stuff that was m/f but I wanted to call it slash. I'd like to pin down why in words. I think it had something to do with the power settings? And the assumptions about if someone is automatically fanciable? I don't know, I just liked the stories the same way I like slash and not like the ways I get fed up of het. ... figuring it out would be easier if I'd bookmarked them in the first place...
If I change two of that list from m to f then there's the same numbers.
I want Clint/Coulson to be m/m because Reasons. Tony-alike is a guy, also because Reasons. Happy kind of does what he's told a lot, with the driving, I don't really want to make that a woman, though also being a boxing and cars bro with Tony but also a chick would work pretty good. Steve I made the rediscovered King so his gender is sort of built into politics. Because Natasha is the actual Queen but everyone is waiting on a King because stories. Flipping Bruce and Betty so Betty has the rage issues giant protection monster and Bruce is the only one who can tame her with love... okay, that, that's all problem. I mean it's problem the other way around, but flipping it does not improve the problem. Maybe if they're both women? *fiddles with table*
... does that help though? Angry woman and the woman that she's protecting? I haven't read that story, let's do that story.
Gender flipping Bucky was my first thought, probably tomboy Becky, Steve's BFF and platonic brother who happens to be female. Because sister has totally different connotations than brother, however annoying that is.
... I could do that too. There could be more women than men. Woah.
;-)
I don't know Maria Hill well from movies but just having ultra competent job lady seems to be of the good.
Nick Fury is twisty and manipulative and over dramatic and a bit of a jerk. Also he's the public face of SHIELD and if the 'verse has gender issues you put the more acceptable gender up front. Flipping it so he's the face man and not the brains would be fun though.
Of course given familiarity with the wider Marvel universe you can just bring in more awesome women until parity is achieved. That's fun too. But a lot of comics characters accrete around a core of stories that were structurally ... really not great to women. A lot of female characters get invented as in relation to male characters. Flipping a male character gives them an origin story and place in the universe that just starts with them.
aka makes them protagonists?
I could random generate characters and their backstories and then random their gender and ethnicity last. There's some RPG tools for doing that. Tending to the setting specific though. Like, http://www.pbegames.com/lifepath/ fantasy ish lifepath generator. Or http://generating.strolen.com/gen/charback.html. Maybe http://rpg.ashami.com/. But random characters don't live in my head the way already characters do.
whine whine writing is haaaaard whine whine
Okay, I think I'm done with this topic.
Gender flipped Avengers are a whole interesting subgenre to explore though.
Writing slash is no excuse. There's more than two characters in the story, there should be more women.
| Tony Rhodey Happy Clint Coulson Thor Selvig Volstag Hogun Fandral Steve Bucky Bruce Nick Fury | Pepper Natasha Jane Darcy Sif Peggy Betty Maria Hill |
I haven't thought of anything to do with Thor's entire kingdom though (except possibly turn Thor into a lightning puppy) so it's more like
| Tony Rhodey Happy Clint Coulson Steve Bucky Bruce Nick Fury | Pepper Natasha Peggy Betty Maria Hill |
Then it looks kind of like bloke, bloke's girl, bloke's bloke, next bloke. Like, if you start with a bloke and make other characters in relation to them you somehow end up with that 2:1 ratio.
I know there's a bunch more characters in the whole cinematic universe, I could list all the women in the Captain America stage things as separate characters, but once ported to a new 'verse with the serial numbers filed off they wouldn't be recognisable, or distinct from the women with the same function for Iron Man's stage show. For AUs you need characters who have been portrayed clearly enough they remain distinctive. I'm probably still forgetting people though.
Or I could make up new and interesting people. But honestly the cast in my head is mostly from my favourite series. Some are just my favourite actors. But if I try and invent people from scratch they just end up being Like Iron Man But anyway. Or whoever.
It would be really easy to import Buffy the Vampire Slayer to my 'verse that already has undead things. Including the parts where the undead things would kind of like you to stop treating them like things pls. But I'd be annoyed with Buffy, because she's all why can't I have a normal life why do I have to have power, and newsflash, everyone with a normal life is dealing with the exact same things they just tend to get killed by them quicker.
I kind of want to turn my Rhodey-alike into a woman. Possibly Gina Torres. Because every 'verse needs more Gina Torres. Then the War Machine armour, the big plate armour in historical AU, wouldn't change and they'd still be the tank that protects Tony's back, and also a woman.
Except in my head Tony and Rhodey are like platonic bffs but only because Tony only tries anything while drunk (which is unfortunately very frequent) and Rhodey kind of treats it like a puppy being overly familiar and shrugs him off, and Tony pretends he's not sad except for when he clowns big sad puppy eyes, and Rhodey's pretty sure he's only doing any of it because that's what he does with everyone and so he doesn't feel bad about mostly ignoring it. The guy's maybe his best friend, but still a guy, so that doesn't work. But Tony keeps trying.
So if you gender flip that then you have a totally different vibe. I mean, it's inappropriate to not take quit it for an answer either way, but it's different with two guys, the power balances are all different, Tony has money and privilege and being white but Rhodey has rank and strength and height and age, especially when they meet he'd not be the same age, if they met in college Tony was total puppy stage still. Add gender and it's a different mess entirely. So I don't know.
It reminds me one why I like slash actually, whatever power differences there are there isn't that one structuring one, other stuff can be explored without it saying things about gender, actual equality can be the assumed default setting.
I was thinking after I watched the most recent Bond films that I read some Bond/M stuff that was m/f but I wanted to call it slash. I'd like to pin down why in words. I think it had something to do with the power settings? And the assumptions about if someone is automatically fanciable? I don't know, I just liked the stories the same way I like slash and not like the ways I get fed up of het. ... figuring it out would be easier if I'd bookmarked them in the first place...
If I change two of that list from m to f then there's the same numbers.
| Tony Happy Clint Coulson Steve Bucky Nick Fury | Pepper Rhodey Natasha Peggy Bruce Betty Maria Hill |
I want Clint/Coulson to be m/m because Reasons. Tony-alike is a guy, also because Reasons. Happy kind of does what he's told a lot, with the driving, I don't really want to make that a woman, though also being a boxing and cars bro with Tony but also a chick would work pretty good. Steve I made the rediscovered King so his gender is sort of built into politics. Because Natasha is the actual Queen but everyone is waiting on a King because stories. Flipping Bruce and Betty so Betty has the rage issues giant protection monster and Bruce is the only one who can tame her with love... okay, that, that's all problem. I mean it's problem the other way around, but flipping it does not improve the problem. Maybe if they're both women? *fiddles with table*
... does that help though? Angry woman and the woman that she's protecting? I haven't read that story, let's do that story.
Gender flipping Bucky was my first thought, probably tomboy Becky, Steve's BFF and platonic brother who happens to be female. Because sister has totally different connotations than brother, however annoying that is.
... I could do that too. There could be more women than men. Woah.
;-)
I don't know Maria Hill well from movies but just having ultra competent job lady seems to be of the good.
Nick Fury is twisty and manipulative and over dramatic and a bit of a jerk. Also he's the public face of SHIELD and if the 'verse has gender issues you put the more acceptable gender up front. Flipping it so he's the face man and not the brains would be fun though.
Of course given familiarity with the wider Marvel universe you can just bring in more awesome women until parity is achieved. That's fun too. But a lot of comics characters accrete around a core of stories that were structurally ... really not great to women. A lot of female characters get invented as in relation to male characters. Flipping a male character gives them an origin story and place in the universe that just starts with them.
aka makes them protagonists?
I could random generate characters and their backstories and then random their gender and ethnicity last. There's some RPG tools for doing that. Tending to the setting specific though. Like, http://www.pbegames.com/lifepath/ fantasy ish lifepath generator. Or http://generating.strolen.com/gen/charback.html. Maybe http://rpg.ashami.com/. But random characters don't live in my head the way already characters do.
whine whine writing is haaaaard whine whine
Okay, I think I'm done with this topic.
Gender flipped Avengers are a whole interesting subgenre to explore though.