Deck of Many Things
Oct. 18th, 2021 03:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethToday I received in the post the Deck of Many Things I ordered.
Sadly it is not magic.
... I mean if it was magic I would have drawn Flames, Balance, Void so far this afternoon, so slightly not sadly...
BUT
this leaves me with a difficulty I had not anticipated:
actually randomising the cards.
Because there are 22 cards and when you draw most of them they shuffle back in and you could draw them again.
If they were perfectly randomised every time there would be a 1/22 chance of drawing each card every time. Unless and until you draw the Jester or the Fool, which are discarded once drawn, so then the odds of the rest are 1/21 or 1/20. Right?
But they're cards. You have to shuffle cards. Shuffling is an imperfect randomisation method that relies on imperfection to achieve randomness. I dont know how to shuffle so there's the same chance of drawing the card you just put back in.
I looked up how many times to shuffle to get a deck random and for ordinary cards it was 4 to 7 for most games, with many explanations I didnt read.
But if you are drawing 22 cards then shuffling 7 times between each is... a lot.
And that's instructions for a full deck, not a 22.
And I'm still never going to be convinced it's properly random.
An actual magic deck would give you what it gives you.
The generator on the Wizards site more closely duplicates the actual Deck experience.
... my new cards are V Pretty tho.
Also today I drew the moon card once for 4 wishes. I decided to use them up on resurrecting Ethan and Giles. Dont know if Giles needs it in current canon but I'm reading fic with them this week so.
If I was being sensible instead of playing with my new cards
Pathfinder explicitly allows you to wish for what card you draw next.
It's actually an important historical plot point in Golarion that someone did that once.
So Pathfinder allows you to wish for more Moon cards.
... there's an upper limit to wishing for more wishes but it would be rather fun getting there...
So you could get up to 22 resurrections of people you dont have remains for that way.
Or, possibly, you could use a wish on getting an assortment of bones, and then have cheaper ressurections. Seems against the spirit of the thing. But the game seems to assume you're mostly going to ressurect Player Characters, so who knows what a GM would allow for random NPCs.
My new cards are very pretty arts and I have a Deck of Many Things now
🌞
Sadly it is not magic.
... I mean if it was magic I would have drawn Flames, Balance, Void so far this afternoon, so slightly not sadly...
BUT
this leaves me with a difficulty I had not anticipated:
actually randomising the cards.
Because there are 22 cards and when you draw most of them they shuffle back in and you could draw them again.
If they were perfectly randomised every time there would be a 1/22 chance of drawing each card every time. Unless and until you draw the Jester or the Fool, which are discarded once drawn, so then the odds of the rest are 1/21 or 1/20. Right?
But they're cards. You have to shuffle cards. Shuffling is an imperfect randomisation method that relies on imperfection to achieve randomness. I dont know how to shuffle so there's the same chance of drawing the card you just put back in.
I looked up how many times to shuffle to get a deck random and for ordinary cards it was 4 to 7 for most games, with many explanations I didnt read.
But if you are drawing 22 cards then shuffling 7 times between each is... a lot.
And that's instructions for a full deck, not a 22.
And I'm still never going to be convinced it's properly random.
An actual magic deck would give you what it gives you.
The generator on the Wizards site more closely duplicates the actual Deck experience.
... my new cards are V Pretty tho.
Also today I drew the moon card once for 4 wishes. I decided to use them up on resurrecting Ethan and Giles. Dont know if Giles needs it in current canon but I'm reading fic with them this week so.
If I was being sensible instead of playing with my new cards
Pathfinder explicitly allows you to wish for what card you draw next.
It's actually an important historical plot point in Golarion that someone did that once.
So Pathfinder allows you to wish for more Moon cards.
... there's an upper limit to wishing for more wishes but it would be rather fun getting there...
So you could get up to 22 resurrections of people you dont have remains for that way.
Or, possibly, you could use a wish on getting an assortment of bones, and then have cheaper ressurections. Seems against the spirit of the thing. But the game seems to assume you're mostly going to ressurect Player Characters, so who knows what a GM would allow for random NPCs.
My new cards are very pretty arts and I have a Deck of Many Things now
🌞
no subject
Date: 2021-10-18 02:40 pm (UTC)If you can get up to casting 9th level miracles anyway you can do resurrections later.
Wizard Druid Mystic Theurge?
Urban Druid with Community domain
eventually gets miracles
but does a Mystic Theurge get domain spells?
I dont think so?
If you can level up enough and specialise enough to make magic items there are several for raising the dead. But there's the bones problem again.
no subject
Date: 2021-10-18 02:46 pm (UTC)The most convenient answer is that domains are a feature you already got at level one so yes.
I doubt convenience.
Obviously the most sensible answer is to pick a class and stick with it, but, I dont want to shapeshift and so forth, and wizard wishes are so expensive and need diamonds, and I always like the idea of magic without limits.
hypothetical maximums, if 22 cards is a maximum
Date: 2021-10-18 03:36 pm (UTC)If you can start with the Moon and Wish for sun sun sun moon for 22 cards then your maximum level is
1 Moon
2 sun
3 sun
4 sun
5 moon
6 sun
7 sun
8 sun
9 moon
10 sun
11 sun
12 sun
13 moon
14 sun
15 sun
16 sun
17 moon
18 sun
19 sun
20 sun
21 moon
22 jester
bonus sun bonus sun
and a wish left.
... I wonder what Wishing for a complete spellbook would get you... into trouble obviously but aside from that...
oh, wish for an apprentice complete with spellbook, it you took Leadership. fully wquipped apprentice. or just an apprentice, like, a recruitment call, but one who knows different spells than you.
17*50,000XP = 850,000 XP = 17th, 15th or 14th level depending on xp track.
A 17th level Wizard can cast Wish once a day, and could have learnt it while leveling up.
If I use the moon to wish for moon comet every time up there has a Sun and then wish for a really manageable qualifying monster, like a less than first level monster, then I can be level 17 in one fight. If and only if they are applied sequentially.
Actually if that last one is Comet and I wish for a monster I could then easily defeat, I get a whole level out of it. Which is advantageous slow and medium tracks, but exactly the same on fast. ah well, cooler though.
Or I could use Moon 4, wish next cards are Moon, Sun, Throne, Comet.
Since cards go back in the deck that shouldnt be necessary, but it is more pleasing.
And if the Comet rule is going to be applied unfavourable (which it inevitably is) then get Gem and accumulate diamonds. 50,000gp of diamonds can solve many problems. Key is going to get you nice stuff too but if you're levelling in Wizard you can make many nice stuff.
If you want to be subtle, Vizier is incredibly powerful, if you apply brains carefully.
1 Moon
2 Sun
3 Throne
4 Gem
5 Moon
6 Sun
7 Throne
8 Gem
9 Moon
10 Sun
11 Throne
12 Gem
13 Moon
14 Sun
15 Throne
16 Key
17 Moon
18 Sun
19 Throne
20 Vizier
21 Moon
22 Jester
bonus Vizier bonus comet
and a wish for an easily defeated by me first monster.
250,000Xp 11th, 12th or 13th level plus Comet.
All of this ignores that applying the rules in quite this way is going to have Consequences ie annoy the GM or in universe PTB
I still think resurrecting cool people is the best use of wishes, because the ressurection spell is very clear on only working if they want to come back.
Then it's Moon Sun Resurrection for two wishes all the way down
1 Moon
2 Sun
3 Moon
4 Sun
5 Moon
6 Sun
7 Moon
8 Sun
9 Moon
10 Sun
11 Moon
12 Sun
13 Moon
14 Sun
15 Moon
16 Sun
17 Moon
18 Sun
19 Moon
20 Sun
21 Moon
22 Jester
bonus Comet bonus Moon
one wish left for Comet opponent
13 resurrections of absent people
500,000XP for level 13, 14, or 15
plus the Comet opponent.
I would still prefer to talk them down than beat them but I dont know how specific Comet is.
obviously you are never going to draw the perfect 22, but. math.