Library math
Jan. 27th, 2022 12:43 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethThe rpg module I'm using sets a fight in a library, and then doesnt expect you to try and take books so there's no stats listed. No weight, no numbers of books. And it doesnt have a library stat block, so it's possible everything in there is merely a book shaped object, because there's no stats for what you can research in there.
But there's 32 5 foot squares worth of shelving shown on that map. Which, if filled with books, seems like Many Books.
The ones around the edges of the room are taller than the humans and might need climbing to, the ones in the middle are shorter than that but I had them blocking sightlines earlier anyway.
Books in the Equipment section is mostly Spellbooks, 12 inch tall, 8 inch deep, 1 inch wide.
At twelve books to a foot that is so many books.
Like it could be 10,000 books.
Although obviously not every book is a spellbook, it is a library in a wizard school.
So a wizard's spellbook is 3 lbs weight and the party is going to have a bag of holding type IV by the end of the module, so they could just shove 500 books in there and call it a day.
Which sounds like a lot, but, it's only one and a half of those tall 5 foot shelves.
Like 2 out of 32 squares even if we're being generous with shelf heights.
The angst! The woe! The librarian having to abandon so many!
... also I havent figured out if the bag of holding's cubic foot limit applies because they never give you that number, just the weight, so it'll just have to do. 250 cu ft of bag of holding, books are a foot tall, twelve to a foot wide, so you'd fit... 3,000 without worrying about less than a foot deep. That's fine then. If I can math correctly.
So *now* I'm fiddling with the problem 'how do they carry all the loot'
while ignoring there's no game mechanical value attached to said loot
and the books might be meant to be fakes anyway.
Like I now want to figure what's the absolute most books these people could manage to carry between then.
And how they'd manage to pick them up.
And at a certain point I'll need to figure out how the magic exit portal works, because could they just pile them all up inside the circle? There's a circle drawn on the map and it's only like 12 squares big, so not all 32 if they were literally solid of books, but obviously they are not. Because people walk between shelves. So then you wonder.
'any character standing on the circle may use it as a teleportation circle'
so that spell will have its limits listed.
teleportation circle refers you back to Greater Teleport
which refers to Teleport
which says
You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load.
So the bag of holding and handy haversack are a very good start, but then I'd need to figure out the strength stat for all my OCs, and maybe add some Ant Haul...
... I cannot stress enough how much the module does not expect you to do anything other than defeat the big bad and leave. It doesnt think it has set you a logistical puzzle. I just... wonder these things.
But, also, Ultimate Campaign lists how much for a Book Repository or Magical Repository, and the price sounds a lot when you compare it to other rooms, but not when you compare it to blank spellbooks. You could buy 22 blank books at that price. And those 22 would give you a +2 on one (1) Knowledge skill. In 4 to 12 squares, including reading tables and seating. I think it's a little tricky to justify more than 4 squares for 22 books. And a Magical Repository gives you bonuses on Knowledge arcana & spellcraft, which is good, but it could only be... an 18 book upgrade on the Books Depository. So they have 40 blank books worth of gold go in to a Magical Depository. In 4 to 12 squares.
It's significantly easier to fit them in a sack, but substantially harder to hide anything in such a collection, which is the key bit of plot business.
I feel I must have missed a rule somewhere, but it does specifically say you can upgrade a Book Repository to a Magical Repository for 270gp.
Some of the books listed only cost 5gp. But they are also smaller, so the cost per foot seems likely to remain similar.
Ultimate Intrigue has rules for libraries, by which it means any significant collection of knowledge you need to research, not just bound books. Libraries there are expressed in Knowledge Points and Complexity. Research happens in consecutive 8 hour days, you make a research roll against the libraries Complexity to get any knowledge poonts out, and each 8 hour day gives you +1 to your research, but if you stop for a month you have to start over.
Also if you get all the knowledge points out of a library you get XP.
Not sure I've got the hang of the rules there, but, fair goes at applying dice rolls to learning things from books.
But it doesnt express Knowledge Points of Complexity in gold at all. At All.
It says 'a typical library grants a Knowledge bonus of +2 to +5, depending on the size of the library and the quality of the collection'
but Ultimate Campaigns only lists the +2 sort, so that's the basic ones. Bit relieved there. Still wondering math on the difference.
I know there's D&D 2e rules but they're too different. as per Stronghold Builders Guide:
... their Library Basic is 500gp, Library Fancy 3,000, and Library Luxury 15,000gp
but that's the structures, not the book lots!
a book lot costs 1,000 gp and provides +2 circumstance bonus on a specific Knowledge check, same as Ultimate Campaigns, but very different and possibly more plausible gold price.
A general book lot, giving +1 to any Knowlege, costs 3000gp
Comprehensive book lots are 5000gp for +4 to one Knowledge
Master book lots are 20,000gp for +6 to one Knowledge
and they take up more shelf space.
But every price is too different to just use those.
They're still all cheaper than some full spellbooks though.
Spellbooks be spendy, to limit how many spells a wizard has.
No spellbooks in this loot, we were ethical and principled and gave back the spellbook we did find.
I just imagine Giles trying to get all the books out before the Mayor gets there, only they don't have an exact time, and someone has shuffled the library... he could get stuck on that conundrum well into danger minutes...
But there's 32 5 foot squares worth of shelving shown on that map. Which, if filled with books, seems like Many Books.
The ones around the edges of the room are taller than the humans and might need climbing to, the ones in the middle are shorter than that but I had them blocking sightlines earlier anyway.
Books in the Equipment section is mostly Spellbooks, 12 inch tall, 8 inch deep, 1 inch wide.
At twelve books to a foot that is so many books.
Like it could be 10,000 books.
Although obviously not every book is a spellbook, it is a library in a wizard school.
So a wizard's spellbook is 3 lbs weight and the party is going to have a bag of holding type IV by the end of the module, so they could just shove 500 books in there and call it a day.
Which sounds like a lot, but, it's only one and a half of those tall 5 foot shelves.
Like 2 out of 32 squares even if we're being generous with shelf heights.
The angst! The woe! The librarian having to abandon so many!
... also I havent figured out if the bag of holding's cubic foot limit applies because they never give you that number, just the weight, so it'll just have to do. 250 cu ft of bag of holding, books are a foot tall, twelve to a foot wide, so you'd fit... 3,000 without worrying about less than a foot deep. That's fine then. If I can math correctly.
So *now* I'm fiddling with the problem 'how do they carry all the loot'
while ignoring there's no game mechanical value attached to said loot
and the books might be meant to be fakes anyway.
Like I now want to figure what's the absolute most books these people could manage to carry between then.
And how they'd manage to pick them up.
And at a certain point I'll need to figure out how the magic exit portal works, because could they just pile them all up inside the circle? There's a circle drawn on the map and it's only like 12 squares big, so not all 32 if they were literally solid of books, but obviously they are not. Because people walk between shelves. So then you wonder.
'any character standing on the circle may use it as a teleportation circle'
so that spell will have its limits listed.
teleportation circle refers you back to Greater Teleport
which refers to Teleport
which says
You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load.
So the bag of holding and handy haversack are a very good start, but then I'd need to figure out the strength stat for all my OCs, and maybe add some Ant Haul...
... I cannot stress enough how much the module does not expect you to do anything other than defeat the big bad and leave. It doesnt think it has set you a logistical puzzle. I just... wonder these things.
But, also, Ultimate Campaign lists how much for a Book Repository or Magical Repository, and the price sounds a lot when you compare it to other rooms, but not when you compare it to blank spellbooks. You could buy 22 blank books at that price. And those 22 would give you a +2 on one (1) Knowledge skill. In 4 to 12 squares, including reading tables and seating. I think it's a little tricky to justify more than 4 squares for 22 books. And a Magical Repository gives you bonuses on Knowledge arcana & spellcraft, which is good, but it could only be... an 18 book upgrade on the Books Depository. So they have 40 blank books worth of gold go in to a Magical Depository. In 4 to 12 squares.
It's significantly easier to fit them in a sack, but substantially harder to hide anything in such a collection, which is the key bit of plot business.
I feel I must have missed a rule somewhere, but it does specifically say you can upgrade a Book Repository to a Magical Repository for 270gp.
Some of the books listed only cost 5gp. But they are also smaller, so the cost per foot seems likely to remain similar.
Ultimate Intrigue has rules for libraries, by which it means any significant collection of knowledge you need to research, not just bound books. Libraries there are expressed in Knowledge Points and Complexity. Research happens in consecutive 8 hour days, you make a research roll against the libraries Complexity to get any knowledge poonts out, and each 8 hour day gives you +1 to your research, but if you stop for a month you have to start over.
Also if you get all the knowledge points out of a library you get XP.
Not sure I've got the hang of the rules there, but, fair goes at applying dice rolls to learning things from books.
But it doesnt express Knowledge Points of Complexity in gold at all. At All.
It says 'a typical library grants a Knowledge bonus of +2 to +5, depending on the size of the library and the quality of the collection'
but Ultimate Campaigns only lists the +2 sort, so that's the basic ones. Bit relieved there. Still wondering math on the difference.
I know there's D&D 2e rules but they're too different. as per Stronghold Builders Guide:
... their Library Basic is 500gp, Library Fancy 3,000, and Library Luxury 15,000gp
but that's the structures, not the book lots!
a book lot costs 1,000 gp and provides +2 circumstance bonus on a specific Knowledge check, same as Ultimate Campaigns, but very different and possibly more plausible gold price.
A general book lot, giving +1 to any Knowlege, costs 3000gp
Comprehensive book lots are 5000gp for +4 to one Knowledge
Master book lots are 20,000gp for +6 to one Knowledge
and they take up more shelf space.
But every price is too different to just use those.
They're still all cheaper than some full spellbooks though.
Spellbooks be spendy, to limit how many spells a wizard has.
No spellbooks in this loot, we were ethical and principled and gave back the spellbook we did find.
I just imagine Giles trying to get all the books out before the Mayor gets there, only they don't have an exact time, and someone has shuffled the library... he could get stuck on that conundrum well into danger minutes...