Torchwood Rewatch 1-10 Out of Time
Feb. 5th, 2007 04:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethGood title. For once. Relates to the episode in several ways.
There's a christmas tree up behind the cage door and sparkly lights up the spiral stairs.
This amuses me.
Transcendental portal
door in time and space
"Never mind about us. What happened to everyone else. Our families."
says a lot about character in a very little.
Tinsel behind the computer screens.
You know the Hub is so shiny most of the time I think I didn't notice this first time round.
Jack's clothes - they don't look entirely out of place with either set of people around him. Not that belt and braces is so very common now, but. Classic look, time travels well.
Jack is kind of flirty with everyone.
We get a shot of the neatly folded stripy pyjamas. That's... urgh, words... it's like anti-flirty and suggestive at once. In my head.
The music is class. That just works so well.
Jack does actually wear different shirts! Er, they look so same there's much paying attention to be sure. Light blue the first section, slightly greener the second. When he matches his office a bit more. And doesn't match the other out of time guy.
The bit with the names pays off when we find out about Captain Jack Harkness, Jack's attitude to names showing.
The jumper and the things on his arms... less classic than Jack, yesno? I mean Jack looks a bit old fashioned, but then there's all that.
Ianto taking them shopping is cuteness.
"Of course bananas are far more interesting"
LOL
... I don't know why that's a LOL every time, and yet.
"£12.10. You'll ruin your teeth."
"You sound like my mum."
Ianto= the mommy.
also Ianto the human calculator.
This bit with showing the time lost... it's always a bit dodgy, because it's telling the audience what they already know. So the point is to make it look new, highlight how things have changed and all that. And here it's the clash of morals, consumer society, all these luxury foods, and scantily dressed celebrities. Plus films in boxes. So much tail eating could be done about the films.
"She's a children's TV presenter" makes LOL also
Ianto deadpan FTW
Because it wouldn't be funny if it wasn't Ianto.
And also the others wouldn't say it the same at all.
... I just realised how character specific those lines manage to be. Because Tosh would geek about the technology, and Owen could lech about scantily dressed celebrities, but neither would say both halves like Ianto did. Huh.
"You girls stick together now. I'll be back for supper."
... sounds so very out of line. It isn't in his head, but it sounds so... odd, to say to anyone that isn't your minor children.
huh*2
and their expressions in the back of the car are sort of saying that same huh.
teabags!
microwave!
I'm looking at how Diane is dressed and thinking that Owen would read that completely different to how she'd be used to. I mean, she dresses like Jack. Don't know how close to crossdressing that would look in 1953. But now? Mostly just clothes.
... I think she looks hotter like that than in the slinky dress. I mean the slinky dress is very pretty and all, but... anyways.
"I'm going to have to find a husband" is such an utterly bizarre line these days.
Yaays!
... for change, I mean.
And I love the look on pilot-lady's face.
such a quiet WTF.
"Hello old girl. D'you miss me?"
Somewhere in my head I'm idly constructing vaguely-lesbian subtext. I mean we get a lot of het text, but half the reason I like the character at all is the other stuff.
"I guess I'm just another pig-headed man"
yes, Owen.
yes indeed.
... sorry, but yeah, I have this theory he completely misreads her, with the dress and all. He's taking her away from her studying and flying plans so she can be his pretty. How does he figure that'll keep her? Except he probably doesn't figure at all, not seeing the uphill she's already conquered.
She's good at her job, has relevant tech knowledge, does the maintenance stuff herself, all kinds of competence shiny there.
I've been avoiding calling the character John because it feels weird. I realise there's so many guys called John it probably ceases to feel personal, and yet.
Two characters called John in one season, both dead by the end, both compared very clearly with Jack. Back from the dead, out of time Jack.
I think Jack was looking at John with his usual slight flirt, but then "did you fall through time too" there's a sort of... ding!connection moment, like... eye contact with person contact in it. Bugger, vocabulary again. Anyways, the look changes, and I think it's nifty even if my English skills aren't up to it right now.
Pint down the pub is such a bloke thing to do, ordinary and seeming sort of comfortable and timeless, up to "you can't smoke in here". Even in the pub there's changes, woe!
... well, speaking as someone who likes breathing, yaays, but in the realising, not so much yaays in his face.
But pint in a can with the girls is a way that the world has changed? Not exactly, maybe a way expectations of the world has changed... I mean it's not like alcohol was only ever consumed by men, not by a long chalk, but the subtleties of consumption have changed rather.
... I *facepalm* at the idea of alcohol being the correct response to "I loved them very much", but culturally out of step am I.
family and alcohol being the theme in both these pairs
... and with Owen, come to think, only his was how women can get family without men. hmmm.
"you expect equality and chivalry"
"I don't see why they should be mutually exclusive"
I like her.
Owen's wrists - watch on one, leather band on the other. Since everything a character wears is chosen for specific effect... I don't know, restriction? In a kinky leather way, yeah, but... meh. I just noted it.
Smoking in the restaurant, which Owen helps her with... er, isn't that going to be illegal by Torchwood christmas? Can't remember, did a report on it for Sociology last year. Mind you, Owen encouraging minor drug/vice law breaking is not unexpected.
"For a bird who's going on 90 you look pretty hot"
Owen is not subtle, Owen uses the word bird, and Owen starts with the medical advances.
All these little bits of very character specific stuff... I'm comparing it to 1-05, which was very unsatisfying because I couldn't tell from the script who should be saying things. This is quite the opposite. Love the voices. Even with half the characters being new they're integrated, they're used to illuminate ongoing characters, and it's just so much workier, skillful, crafty.
Owen explaining that he's not chatting her up because he wouldn't take advantage...
is that the Owen we know and loathe? I think not.
Except for the thing where it's not terribly convincing at all.
That makes it duplicitous and once again in Owen territory.
While giving Diane a chance to take control with that "Got any scotch" bit.
Old fashioned patriarch role going very wrong when it meets someone who won't play their half.
Music in the background, muffled thumping. Nifty. Bothering to put muffled music in. Like a new signal starting to come through, and also appropriate to setting. Runs out and the music gets louder. Neat.
Gwen the newbie gets connected with the young girl finding a new world, and loving it.
Jack gets connected to patriarch out of time suicide guy. Less shiny.
Owen gets connected in a romance way... does that mean it's not a comparison?
"I never had this sort of trouble with my son."
Both a very uncomfortable line - the whole old fashioned too restrictive role thing is uncomfortable to watch, I keep putting the sound off - and making his son his sole point of reference. Everything he says, it all comes back to him. Build up to tragedy, nicely done.
"Do you have a girlfriend"
"No"
Because he has more categories than that and nobody he's fucking is in that one.
Owen is either out of character (which don't seem right when it all sounds so right) or such a liar.
"Real men can moisturise too"
You know that book 'Another Life'? Has Owen playing a Second Life character built on a female template, but a wrestler. And it's probably for laughs, but... an Owen who had breasts on his idealised self image would be a bit more interesting to me, so I kind of tend to un-joke it.
... we have Diane who wears Jack-type clothes and wouldn't fit back in a woman's box when told, and if there's comparison... we have Owen who doesn't noticeably wear a dress but does moisturise and while he defines it as a 'real men' thing she sees it as a role-transgression thing.
I have vague and fuzzy thoughts. And some of it is about how gender roles are smooshing together in the middle, and others of it are about characters who are redefining those roles... I don't think Diane wants to be a man or copy men, but she's keeping the bits that men wouldn't consider appropriate for her and she's keeping them because she thinks they're useful and valuable. So, does this compare to Owen or just appeal to him or does he notice at all?
This whole ep would be very usefully examined with gender roles in mind. I mean, it's the central thing, that and change therein over time. But I feel a bit under equipped, sort of thing.
"A whole new world"
"It's not so bad, once you get used to it"
... Torchwood world ...
"I reckon you'll fit in... just fine."
She don't look so sure, or so happy.
"I'm glad you haven't got a girlfriend"
"Me too"
cut to Gwen.
yeeeeah, the episode has Opinions on that one...
incidentally, Owen and Gwen are wearing almost the same grey tops, only hers is under a blue layer.
new girl is all pink. that's so on purpose. girly pink.
but she matches the sofa.
So we don't see who kisses who or how they end up in bed, we just see After.
That "I'm glad you haven't got a girlfriend" is a bit direct and yet not entirely.
So I was wondering, who would move to kiss who first?
Only we don't get to see.
But we do get a whole you didn't invent sex bit which is fun.
purple sheets. highly symbolic, is purple. if I could figure out of what I'd be further along.
I still reckon is passion, with some slightly dark overtones. Bit twisted maybe.
But *shrugs*
"fuck buddies"
*facepalm*
... now I'm remembering my mum saying how Torchwood was educational...
Owen is just sort of... off. Even when he's being at his most... whatever this is. Romantic isn't it, and respectful seems off as well.
"Sex shouldn't be devalued." *hand* "Both parties should give it 100% concentration"
*rearrangement of parts*
"Because when you take off together it's the next best thing to flying"
Owen really can't take a hint, can he? She's very consistent about what she's looking for.
I guess that fits his usual way of operating nicely, though. He just got all surprised by those weird new feelings.
poor thing
/sarcasm
Rhys bum!
screamings!
LOLs
... yeah, that's a cheap funny, but it's funny.
And Gwen's first response is to lie.
When Rhys figures her out he's got ample reason to be very deeply annoyed, even without the Owen factor.
Sofa is pink, walls is blue.
Her robe is pink, his is blue.
very straightforward, except the kitchen is the blue bit and he's the one as does all the housework we've seen.
I love the way they're standing there staring and all this section.
Also, Rhys is such a cheerful generous sweetheart.
Makes Gwen just a teensy more difficult to put up with, every time he's so nice.
Owen reflexively lying too. Much mess.
Jack is wearing the stripes shirt again. 1-09 and 1-10. Guess it's new then :)
John meeting his son is just *ouch*.
With the big comparisons with Jack one wonders about sons of immortals. Passing your own kin in the street. It could be foreshadowy goodness, or it could be explored just by comparison here, as a seems very good reason for Jack not to do the family thing.
And John's back on the football again. Thing is football is a very time-based thing. I mean, one match might be classic, but it don't signify for very long. Even teams... I don't know, are soccer teams fairly geographically stable, or has some gone away and been created? But the neighbourhood and community around those teams would have changed tone for certain. So being stuck on any one game - even a very good game - don't really work, even in his own frame of reference.
nifty
And it's such an impersonal kind of thing to try and make a personal connection with.
oh, actor going for the heartbreak, that so works.
Now for a clunky bit - whyever Jack is talking to thin air (okay, currently not on screen teammate) it's not set up or anything, just kind of floats there. May as well be voiceover.
"End of his world, end of his line, and we can't help"
... it isn't precisely relevant, but in an ep that's already mentioned artificial insemination, actually tech can help, even if he personally isn't going to stick around to do the raising parts.
I have this speech left over from entirely another character about how genetic immortality isn't necessarily anything to do with romantic love or family units. So there's ways to help. With the end of his line part.
But there's no ways to help with the end of his old world or line, just offering to start new.
It irritates me deeply that Tosh doesn't say anything.
She exists even less than usual.
On the other hand, it does connect her with that "end of his line" comment, which I can use with the family duty stuff you can just about squeeze out of her mum's appearance, her mention of her grandfather, and a few bits of traditional cultural background stuff. Add it up and you can get Tosh as last of her family line, finding herself not particularly inclined to do the marriage and children thing, having some personal Issues.
Except that would be making a very long bit of crochet from the holes in the text.
Owen being a twat by accident, clever!
... because booking ahead would be so very difficult.
hmmm, accidental habits of the powerful.
new girl looking out of place and not, not fitting in but also fitting, and the whole bit with Gwen trying to look after her and the way it all adds up... is funny but too *facepalm* for me to want to watch again much.
"for putting up with me"
"I deserve a lot more for doing that"
so she's aware of the problem but not adequately dealing with it.
I like this script. Have I mentioned that? It works, it has characters, it's shiny.
Gwen's house has different colors depending on where you put the camera. That's a designed for TV house that is. Useful.
Gwen's sex speech... it's like she hasn't really thought things through so she keeps bumping into them and their implications. Yesno? Which fits fairly well on other topics?
Gwen in blue and newbie in pink again.
"Sex with him is better than with the others"
Gwen face :-)
"Leave it" he says
and that's such nifty phrasing, because it really is him asking her to leave all that stuff, not just pause.
shiny dress belongs to a different story and Owen doesn't know it yet
I do love the view from his flat. I mean I'm agoraphobic and cover my tiny windows at all times, but in theory that's a spectacular view.
Of his workplace. More or less.
Which is kind of fun in several ways.
Now Jack is in the plain blue and the waistcoat with the chain. More layers than earlier, more buttoned up and formal.
... The trouble with watching Torchwood is I keep finding myself randomly distracted by Jack's arse. the hands in pockets thing really doesn't help.
... did I say trouble? I think I meant bonus...
John nicks the keys and is a relatively good liar.
Ianto is smiley and lives in the reception area apparently.
And leaves his keys lying around. Security minded fellow, then.
Owen's idea of romance is a car park with a view.
*facepalm*
... even if it does work.
Rhys in blue, Gwen in green, ooops found out again...
Gwen face is a picture.
"It's so hard to explain"
... well, yes, with the aliens parts left in, but without them, not so very.
"I'm sorry"
"What worries me is how easy it seems to be for you to lie to me Gwen"
yup, Rhys has accurate perception of local reality right there.
the sad part is where he thinks it's new.
because right from the first interaction we were shown she was lying to him.
about work and Torchwood, so you could guess it was new if you were feeling charitable, but...
"It's like two seperate worlds. There's Torchwood, then there's real life."
a) I need to get me some of that real life half
b) Gwen has stuff on both wrists too
"That's why you've got to let me go."
Like that's going to help. Symptom, not cause, dear.
And it cuts from there to Owen.
You know 100% of his, er, 'love' life we ever see is Torchwood related. Alien tech, workmate, fell through the rift. Like Torchwood is his whole life, yesno?
Owen's romance? Roleplay. "He is a fool to let you go out in it alone"
he's a fool alright
alone is she?
Music and dancing...
I'm comparing this to two other dances - the one earlier in the episode, and the one in the later episode written by same person.
Earlier in episode, modern music, crowds, meeting, dancing, going off for kissing, but a mismatch in expectations.
Later episode... lots of things, but the thing I was thinking was, in public.
The more they're together the more they're in this bubble world, and Owen's building it. He doesn't take her out somewhere nice for dancing, he takes her out somewhere empty.
We see shiny new sound system in the background in Owen's place, but here there's old school music - her era? I know not. And they're dancing to it like they can hear it, though this ep plays with which music is heard by who when.
Like he's building a bubble of past, with the music and the roles and the dress... and isn't that exactly what she flew away from in the first place?
Why would Owen value that, want that?
Because it's hers? Has he misunderstood her?
Or... what? Some part of an old fashioned role?
Note the music. Which continues past the point they're acting like they can hear it. And has relevant lyrics I can't be bothered to type up. "Don't try and fake romance"
So now there's back to his place and having sex... was the whole date a drive to a car park, dance, and back to his for sex? Because that's kind of... well, not very date like.
Not that I know what dates are like.
So he's kissing her against the window and the phone starts and draws us between scenes with the same music following. I'm tempted to go find lyrics now.
"it's the good life to be free and explore the unknown"
okay, this episode is songfic...
Jack in his hole.
... there is no joke there. really.
"When you learn you must face them alone"
and Jack picks up the phone and the music fades out.
Jack's attitude to the phone ringing was fun, he climbs up and dusts off and it isn't... I don't know, is there some thwarted expectation there? Going to "My car keys are missing" isn't an obvious link to the music or the dating, whereas Jack talking to Ianto could be such a link.
Ianto handing Jack the coat is just... it's cute on that 'so married!' level and the Alfred level too. Jack so expects stuff from Ianto, and Ianto so smoothly provides.
Then gets left in the office alone.
Ianto's role is to hand Jack stuff and stay at the Hub.
Ianto's place in the (this episode very gendered) scheme of things is... interesting.
Jack with his earpiece in, using his wristcomp, in the Torchwood SUV with the lights flashing... it's all the standard tools of Torchwood action, but what he finds when he gets there isn't amenable to the standard interventions.
Interrupts the suicide attempt.
Tells John more about Jack than we or to the best of our knowledge any Torchwood person has heard all season.
Strong comparison/connection.
"You're still young" is a different standard of young than the one that applies to 18 year olds, for instance. Is interesting.
"When I was meant to" is a bloody stupid response. I mean, there's more than one script.
This whole bit upset me a lot, but now I'm just kind of blanked to it. They're being very stupid. The end.
Cutting between that and Owen having sex seems so... odd.
"Years ago, when I was meant to"
cuts straight to naked backs.
... 'meant to' connection???
It's like cuddling! With more thrust!
... watching Owen have sex was not in fact something I hoped for. Ever.
And it's totally wordless, until they're back in the garage talking about suicide.
WTF up with that?
The bit with Jack... "A man, like you, out of his time, alone and scared" ... it's so...
It would be important and moving and all that drama stuff
but I keep watching it and wanting to whap them both upside the head because it ends so stupid.
Going from sex to Jack keeping his clothes on may well be a comparison. I mean, here's a moment where Jack is definitely not flirting. Not offering that as a connection or enticement. This whole conversation is clearly not about sex.
... because John couldn't go there? Because it wouldn't help? Because what he's looking for Jack couldn't offer?
Or, of course, because Jack doesn't want to... but here's a moment where anything that moves is not getting chatted up.
"It's just bearable. It has to be."
... that is not a happy Jack. Nope. At all.
"I don't have a choice."
"But I do."
This is why I like immortals and hate that particular choice. Because it isn't a proper choice. It's dumb and the end of all choices.
"Are you scared"
"Yes"
Jack and John
goes to Owen
"How've you done this to me? I'm scared. I'm fucking scared."
Scared of opposites or sames?
Living?
"I love you too."
... compare what isn't said.
In the car together breathing in the fumes
In bed together
both ways one watches the other... actually no, sleep is not the right word.
It's bloody creepy is what it is, winding them together that tight.
"The thing about love is that you're always at it's mercy."
And then back to the car and John and Jack.
If that's about love... I don't know which bits are being compared, presence or absence, and it's creepy either way.
Because she chooses to leave this world too. And it's only slightly less final than the car.
(They both go out in vehicles. Travelling still.)
Holding his hand, putting it back in his lap (wedding band, always showing)
Jack's just... broken. Sad. Bad hurt.
I'd hug him but I want to hit him with the call a pshrink stick too much.
Being the one left behind.
Emma going off to new life in a big bus. Difference between travel methods - car alone until Jack arrives, plane alone until Owen arrives, bus is a shared experience sort of thing.
Public and joining in is only ever Emma's thing here.
The other two isolate more and more as the ep goes on.
... here the pink matches the railings at the bus stop. Huh.
Owen and Diane and Owen finding exactly the wrong words and Diane being consistent. Not a possession, not listening therefore breaking records. If that isn't what he loves about her then he doesn't love her.
So now John's gone Diane and Emma's departures are mixed together. Emma with "If I don't then I'll always wonder what it would be like" compares with Diane off into adventure... but already off into death is comparison. So Diane's adventure is a tad bit darker tinged.
Except if D=E then O=J and since O is the one who tries to get dead next episode that stands up at least a little too.
heh... the only bit of the bus ticket showing says 'wift'. Rift with an accent!
(why I stopped calling myself Rebecca. Except Webecca works pretty well too. If I ever need to change my net name.)
"You belong here now, with me"
belong/possess
"I belong in the sky"
she's firm and consistent and Owen is an idiot if he doesn't expect this because she told him every which way.
"What about me?"
Owen keeps giving orders, can't and that. and then he gets selfish.
So she ties him up and kisses him?
... okay ...
"What memories I'm taking with me"
compare 1-13, "I'd say thanks for the memories"
compare what Torchwood *does* to people. names and memories.
And in the end, Owen backs off, though he holds on to the door frame right until the point he'd get squished. Though with extreme reluctance, he lets her go. It's not like she has to hit him or anything.
Which, er, is more generous of him than one of my models of Owen would suggest.
And away she goes.
opposite shot of when they started, big sky and airplane and Torchwood on the tarmac - but only Owen this time.
And Jack is still in the car. Which in TVland terms is a very long time.
We get all three of them perspective on the three visitors, inside their minds remembering type flashbacks, but it still goes back to Owen watching the plane and the symmetry in the last images.
And then the screen goes white. Rift then.
The more likely ending involves air accidents from unauthorised take offs and/or running out of fuel and crashing in the sea, or just undignified landing again. But we get the dramatic music send off.
So this episode is very well constructed, in character, uses everyone except Tosh (she gets a couple of lines of data provision is all), and with each character's endings consistent and emotional.
I just really really wish they hadn't done that. You don't help people kill themselves. Ever.
There's a christmas tree up behind the cage door and sparkly lights up the spiral stairs.
This amuses me.
Transcendental portal
door in time and space
"Never mind about us. What happened to everyone else. Our families."
says a lot about character in a very little.
Tinsel behind the computer screens.
You know the Hub is so shiny most of the time I think I didn't notice this first time round.
Jack's clothes - they don't look entirely out of place with either set of people around him. Not that belt and braces is so very common now, but. Classic look, time travels well.
Jack is kind of flirty with everyone.
We get a shot of the neatly folded stripy pyjamas. That's... urgh, words... it's like anti-flirty and suggestive at once. In my head.
The music is class. That just works so well.
Jack does actually wear different shirts! Er, they look so same there's much paying attention to be sure. Light blue the first section, slightly greener the second. When he matches his office a bit more. And doesn't match the other out of time guy.
The bit with the names pays off when we find out about Captain Jack Harkness, Jack's attitude to names showing.
The jumper and the things on his arms... less classic than Jack, yesno? I mean Jack looks a bit old fashioned, but then there's all that.
Ianto taking them shopping is cuteness.
"Of course bananas are far more interesting"
LOL
... I don't know why that's a LOL every time, and yet.
"£12.10. You'll ruin your teeth."
"You sound like my mum."
Ianto= the mommy.
also Ianto the human calculator.
This bit with showing the time lost... it's always a bit dodgy, because it's telling the audience what they already know. So the point is to make it look new, highlight how things have changed and all that. And here it's the clash of morals, consumer society, all these luxury foods, and scantily dressed celebrities. Plus films in boxes. So much tail eating could be done about the films.
"She's a children's TV presenter" makes LOL also
Ianto deadpan FTW
Because it wouldn't be funny if it wasn't Ianto.
And also the others wouldn't say it the same at all.
... I just realised how character specific those lines manage to be. Because Tosh would geek about the technology, and Owen could lech about scantily dressed celebrities, but neither would say both halves like Ianto did. Huh.
"You girls stick together now. I'll be back for supper."
... sounds so very out of line. It isn't in his head, but it sounds so... odd, to say to anyone that isn't your minor children.
huh*2
and their expressions in the back of the car are sort of saying that same huh.
teabags!
microwave!
I'm looking at how Diane is dressed and thinking that Owen would read that completely different to how she'd be used to. I mean, she dresses like Jack. Don't know how close to crossdressing that would look in 1953. But now? Mostly just clothes.
... I think she looks hotter like that than in the slinky dress. I mean the slinky dress is very pretty and all, but... anyways.
"I'm going to have to find a husband" is such an utterly bizarre line these days.
Yaays!
... for change, I mean.
And I love the look on pilot-lady's face.
such a quiet WTF.
"Hello old girl. D'you miss me?"
Somewhere in my head I'm idly constructing vaguely-lesbian subtext. I mean we get a lot of het text, but half the reason I like the character at all is the other stuff.
"I guess I'm just another pig-headed man"
yes, Owen.
yes indeed.
... sorry, but yeah, I have this theory he completely misreads her, with the dress and all. He's taking her away from her studying and flying plans so she can be his pretty. How does he figure that'll keep her? Except he probably doesn't figure at all, not seeing the uphill she's already conquered.
She's good at her job, has relevant tech knowledge, does the maintenance stuff herself, all kinds of competence shiny there.
I've been avoiding calling the character John because it feels weird. I realise there's so many guys called John it probably ceases to feel personal, and yet.
Two characters called John in one season, both dead by the end, both compared very clearly with Jack. Back from the dead, out of time Jack.
I think Jack was looking at John with his usual slight flirt, but then "did you fall through time too" there's a sort of... ding!connection moment, like... eye contact with person contact in it. Bugger, vocabulary again. Anyways, the look changes, and I think it's nifty even if my English skills aren't up to it right now.
Pint down the pub is such a bloke thing to do, ordinary and seeming sort of comfortable and timeless, up to "you can't smoke in here". Even in the pub there's changes, woe!
... well, speaking as someone who likes breathing, yaays, but in the realising, not so much yaays in his face.
But pint in a can with the girls is a way that the world has changed? Not exactly, maybe a way expectations of the world has changed... I mean it's not like alcohol was only ever consumed by men, not by a long chalk, but the subtleties of consumption have changed rather.
... I *facepalm* at the idea of alcohol being the correct response to "I loved them very much", but culturally out of step am I.
family and alcohol being the theme in both these pairs
... and with Owen, come to think, only his was how women can get family without men. hmmm.
"you expect equality and chivalry"
"I don't see why they should be mutually exclusive"
I like her.
Owen's wrists - watch on one, leather band on the other. Since everything a character wears is chosen for specific effect... I don't know, restriction? In a kinky leather way, yeah, but... meh. I just noted it.
Smoking in the restaurant, which Owen helps her with... er, isn't that going to be illegal by Torchwood christmas? Can't remember, did a report on it for Sociology last year. Mind you, Owen encouraging minor drug/vice law breaking is not unexpected.
"For a bird who's going on 90 you look pretty hot"
Owen is not subtle, Owen uses the word bird, and Owen starts with the medical advances.
All these little bits of very character specific stuff... I'm comparing it to 1-05, which was very unsatisfying because I couldn't tell from the script who should be saying things. This is quite the opposite. Love the voices. Even with half the characters being new they're integrated, they're used to illuminate ongoing characters, and it's just so much workier, skillful, crafty.
Owen explaining that he's not chatting her up because he wouldn't take advantage...
is that the Owen we know and loathe? I think not.
Except for the thing where it's not terribly convincing at all.
That makes it duplicitous and once again in Owen territory.
While giving Diane a chance to take control with that "Got any scotch" bit.
Old fashioned patriarch role going very wrong when it meets someone who won't play their half.
Music in the background, muffled thumping. Nifty. Bothering to put muffled music in. Like a new signal starting to come through, and also appropriate to setting. Runs out and the music gets louder. Neat.
Gwen the newbie gets connected with the young girl finding a new world, and loving it.
Jack gets connected to patriarch out of time suicide guy. Less shiny.
Owen gets connected in a romance way... does that mean it's not a comparison?
"I never had this sort of trouble with my son."
Both a very uncomfortable line - the whole old fashioned too restrictive role thing is uncomfortable to watch, I keep putting the sound off - and making his son his sole point of reference. Everything he says, it all comes back to him. Build up to tragedy, nicely done.
"Do you have a girlfriend"
"No"
Because he has more categories than that and nobody he's fucking is in that one.
Owen is either out of character (which don't seem right when it all sounds so right) or such a liar.
"Real men can moisturise too"
You know that book 'Another Life'? Has Owen playing a Second Life character built on a female template, but a wrestler. And it's probably for laughs, but... an Owen who had breasts on his idealised self image would be a bit more interesting to me, so I kind of tend to un-joke it.
... we have Diane who wears Jack-type clothes and wouldn't fit back in a woman's box when told, and if there's comparison... we have Owen who doesn't noticeably wear a dress but does moisturise and while he defines it as a 'real men' thing she sees it as a role-transgression thing.
I have vague and fuzzy thoughts. And some of it is about how gender roles are smooshing together in the middle, and others of it are about characters who are redefining those roles... I don't think Diane wants to be a man or copy men, but she's keeping the bits that men wouldn't consider appropriate for her and she's keeping them because she thinks they're useful and valuable. So, does this compare to Owen or just appeal to him or does he notice at all?
This whole ep would be very usefully examined with gender roles in mind. I mean, it's the central thing, that and change therein over time. But I feel a bit under equipped, sort of thing.
"A whole new world"
"It's not so bad, once you get used to it"
... Torchwood world ...
"I reckon you'll fit in... just fine."
She don't look so sure, or so happy.
"I'm glad you haven't got a girlfriend"
"Me too"
cut to Gwen.
yeeeeah, the episode has Opinions on that one...
incidentally, Owen and Gwen are wearing almost the same grey tops, only hers is under a blue layer.
new girl is all pink. that's so on purpose. girly pink.
but she matches the sofa.
So we don't see who kisses who or how they end up in bed, we just see After.
That "I'm glad you haven't got a girlfriend" is a bit direct and yet not entirely.
So I was wondering, who would move to kiss who first?
Only we don't get to see.
But we do get a whole you didn't invent sex bit which is fun.
purple sheets. highly symbolic, is purple. if I could figure out of what I'd be further along.
I still reckon is passion, with some slightly dark overtones. Bit twisted maybe.
But *shrugs*
"fuck buddies"
*facepalm*
... now I'm remembering my mum saying how Torchwood was educational...
Owen is just sort of... off. Even when he's being at his most... whatever this is. Romantic isn't it, and respectful seems off as well.
"Sex shouldn't be devalued." *hand* "Both parties should give it 100% concentration"
*rearrangement of parts*
"Because when you take off together it's the next best thing to flying"
Owen really can't take a hint, can he? She's very consistent about what she's looking for.
I guess that fits his usual way of operating nicely, though. He just got all surprised by those weird new feelings.
poor thing
/sarcasm
Rhys bum!
screamings!
LOLs
... yeah, that's a cheap funny, but it's funny.
And Gwen's first response is to lie.
When Rhys figures her out he's got ample reason to be very deeply annoyed, even without the Owen factor.
Sofa is pink, walls is blue.
Her robe is pink, his is blue.
very straightforward, except the kitchen is the blue bit and he's the one as does all the housework we've seen.
I love the way they're standing there staring and all this section.
Also, Rhys is such a cheerful generous sweetheart.
Makes Gwen just a teensy more difficult to put up with, every time he's so nice.
Owen reflexively lying too. Much mess.
Jack is wearing the stripes shirt again. 1-09 and 1-10. Guess it's new then :)
John meeting his son is just *ouch*.
With the big comparisons with Jack one wonders about sons of immortals. Passing your own kin in the street. It could be foreshadowy goodness, or it could be explored just by comparison here, as a seems very good reason for Jack not to do the family thing.
And John's back on the football again. Thing is football is a very time-based thing. I mean, one match might be classic, but it don't signify for very long. Even teams... I don't know, are soccer teams fairly geographically stable, or has some gone away and been created? But the neighbourhood and community around those teams would have changed tone for certain. So being stuck on any one game - even a very good game - don't really work, even in his own frame of reference.
nifty
And it's such an impersonal kind of thing to try and make a personal connection with.
oh, actor going for the heartbreak, that so works.
Now for a clunky bit - whyever Jack is talking to thin air (okay, currently not on screen teammate) it's not set up or anything, just kind of floats there. May as well be voiceover.
"End of his world, end of his line, and we can't help"
... it isn't precisely relevant, but in an ep that's already mentioned artificial insemination, actually tech can help, even if he personally isn't going to stick around to do the raising parts.
I have this speech left over from entirely another character about how genetic immortality isn't necessarily anything to do with romantic love or family units. So there's ways to help. With the end of his line part.
But there's no ways to help with the end of his old world or line, just offering to start new.
It irritates me deeply that Tosh doesn't say anything.
She exists even less than usual.
On the other hand, it does connect her with that "end of his line" comment, which I can use with the family duty stuff you can just about squeeze out of her mum's appearance, her mention of her grandfather, and a few bits of traditional cultural background stuff. Add it up and you can get Tosh as last of her family line, finding herself not particularly inclined to do the marriage and children thing, having some personal Issues.
Except that would be making a very long bit of crochet from the holes in the text.
Owen being a twat by accident, clever!
... because booking ahead would be so very difficult.
hmmm, accidental habits of the powerful.
new girl looking out of place and not, not fitting in but also fitting, and the whole bit with Gwen trying to look after her and the way it all adds up... is funny but too *facepalm* for me to want to watch again much.
"for putting up with me"
"I deserve a lot more for doing that"
so she's aware of the problem but not adequately dealing with it.
I like this script. Have I mentioned that? It works, it has characters, it's shiny.
Gwen's house has different colors depending on where you put the camera. That's a designed for TV house that is. Useful.
Gwen's sex speech... it's like she hasn't really thought things through so she keeps bumping into them and their implications. Yesno? Which fits fairly well on other topics?
Gwen in blue and newbie in pink again.
"Sex with him is better than with the others"
Gwen face :-)
"Leave it" he says
and that's such nifty phrasing, because it really is him asking her to leave all that stuff, not just pause.
shiny dress belongs to a different story and Owen doesn't know it yet
I do love the view from his flat. I mean I'm agoraphobic and cover my tiny windows at all times, but in theory that's a spectacular view.
Of his workplace. More or less.
Which is kind of fun in several ways.
Now Jack is in the plain blue and the waistcoat with the chain. More layers than earlier, more buttoned up and formal.
... The trouble with watching Torchwood is I keep finding myself randomly distracted by Jack's arse. the hands in pockets thing really doesn't help.
... did I say trouble? I think I meant bonus...
John nicks the keys and is a relatively good liar.
Ianto is smiley and lives in the reception area apparently.
And leaves his keys lying around. Security minded fellow, then.
Owen's idea of romance is a car park with a view.
*facepalm*
... even if it does work.
Rhys in blue, Gwen in green, ooops found out again...
Gwen face is a picture.
"It's so hard to explain"
... well, yes, with the aliens parts left in, but without them, not so very.
"I'm sorry"
"What worries me is how easy it seems to be for you to lie to me Gwen"
yup, Rhys has accurate perception of local reality right there.
the sad part is where he thinks it's new.
because right from the first interaction we were shown she was lying to him.
about work and Torchwood, so you could guess it was new if you were feeling charitable, but...
"It's like two seperate worlds. There's Torchwood, then there's real life."
a) I need to get me some of that real life half
b) Gwen has stuff on both wrists too
"That's why you've got to let me go."
Like that's going to help. Symptom, not cause, dear.
And it cuts from there to Owen.
You know 100% of his, er, 'love' life we ever see is Torchwood related. Alien tech, workmate, fell through the rift. Like Torchwood is his whole life, yesno?
Owen's romance? Roleplay. "He is a fool to let you go out in it alone"
he's a fool alright
alone is she?
Music and dancing...
I'm comparing this to two other dances - the one earlier in the episode, and the one in the later episode written by same person.
Earlier in episode, modern music, crowds, meeting, dancing, going off for kissing, but a mismatch in expectations.
Later episode... lots of things, but the thing I was thinking was, in public.
The more they're together the more they're in this bubble world, and Owen's building it. He doesn't take her out somewhere nice for dancing, he takes her out somewhere empty.
We see shiny new sound system in the background in Owen's place, but here there's old school music - her era? I know not. And they're dancing to it like they can hear it, though this ep plays with which music is heard by who when.
Like he's building a bubble of past, with the music and the roles and the dress... and isn't that exactly what she flew away from in the first place?
Why would Owen value that, want that?
Because it's hers? Has he misunderstood her?
Or... what? Some part of an old fashioned role?
Note the music. Which continues past the point they're acting like they can hear it. And has relevant lyrics I can't be bothered to type up. "Don't try and fake romance"
So now there's back to his place and having sex... was the whole date a drive to a car park, dance, and back to his for sex? Because that's kind of... well, not very date like.
Not that I know what dates are like.
So he's kissing her against the window and the phone starts and draws us between scenes with the same music following. I'm tempted to go find lyrics now.
"it's the good life to be free and explore the unknown"
okay, this episode is songfic...
Jack in his hole.
... there is no joke there. really.
"When you learn you must face them alone"
and Jack picks up the phone and the music fades out.
Jack's attitude to the phone ringing was fun, he climbs up and dusts off and it isn't... I don't know, is there some thwarted expectation there? Going to "My car keys are missing" isn't an obvious link to the music or the dating, whereas Jack talking to Ianto could be such a link.
Ianto handing Jack the coat is just... it's cute on that 'so married!' level and the Alfred level too. Jack so expects stuff from Ianto, and Ianto so smoothly provides.
Then gets left in the office alone.
Ianto's role is to hand Jack stuff and stay at the Hub.
Ianto's place in the (this episode very gendered) scheme of things is... interesting.
Jack with his earpiece in, using his wristcomp, in the Torchwood SUV with the lights flashing... it's all the standard tools of Torchwood action, but what he finds when he gets there isn't amenable to the standard interventions.
Interrupts the suicide attempt.
Tells John more about Jack than we or to the best of our knowledge any Torchwood person has heard all season.
Strong comparison/connection.
"You're still young" is a different standard of young than the one that applies to 18 year olds, for instance. Is interesting.
"When I was meant to" is a bloody stupid response. I mean, there's more than one script.
This whole bit upset me a lot, but now I'm just kind of blanked to it. They're being very stupid. The end.
Cutting between that and Owen having sex seems so... odd.
"Years ago, when I was meant to"
cuts straight to naked backs.
... 'meant to' connection???
It's like cuddling! With more thrust!
... watching Owen have sex was not in fact something I hoped for. Ever.
And it's totally wordless, until they're back in the garage talking about suicide.
WTF up with that?
The bit with Jack... "A man, like you, out of his time, alone and scared" ... it's so...
It would be important and moving and all that drama stuff
but I keep watching it and wanting to whap them both upside the head because it ends so stupid.
Going from sex to Jack keeping his clothes on may well be a comparison. I mean, here's a moment where Jack is definitely not flirting. Not offering that as a connection or enticement. This whole conversation is clearly not about sex.
... because John couldn't go there? Because it wouldn't help? Because what he's looking for Jack couldn't offer?
Or, of course, because Jack doesn't want to... but here's a moment where anything that moves is not getting chatted up.
"It's just bearable. It has to be."
... that is not a happy Jack. Nope. At all.
"I don't have a choice."
"But I do."
This is why I like immortals and hate that particular choice. Because it isn't a proper choice. It's dumb and the end of all choices.
"Are you scared"
"Yes"
Jack and John
goes to Owen
"How've you done this to me? I'm scared. I'm fucking scared."
Scared of opposites or sames?
Living?
"I love you too."
... compare what isn't said.
In the car together breathing in the fumes
In bed together
both ways one watches the other... actually no, sleep is not the right word.
It's bloody creepy is what it is, winding them together that tight.
"The thing about love is that you're always at it's mercy."
And then back to the car and John and Jack.
If that's about love... I don't know which bits are being compared, presence or absence, and it's creepy either way.
Because she chooses to leave this world too. And it's only slightly less final than the car.
(They both go out in vehicles. Travelling still.)
Holding his hand, putting it back in his lap (wedding band, always showing)
Jack's just... broken. Sad. Bad hurt.
I'd hug him but I want to hit him with the call a pshrink stick too much.
Being the one left behind.
Emma going off to new life in a big bus. Difference between travel methods - car alone until Jack arrives, plane alone until Owen arrives, bus is a shared experience sort of thing.
Public and joining in is only ever Emma's thing here.
The other two isolate more and more as the ep goes on.
... here the pink matches the railings at the bus stop. Huh.
Owen and Diane and Owen finding exactly the wrong words and Diane being consistent. Not a possession, not listening therefore breaking records. If that isn't what he loves about her then he doesn't love her.
So now John's gone Diane and Emma's departures are mixed together. Emma with "If I don't then I'll always wonder what it would be like" compares with Diane off into adventure... but already off into death is comparison. So Diane's adventure is a tad bit darker tinged.
Except if D=E then O=J and since O is the one who tries to get dead next episode that stands up at least a little too.
heh... the only bit of the bus ticket showing says 'wift'. Rift with an accent!
(why I stopped calling myself Rebecca. Except Webecca works pretty well too. If I ever need to change my net name.)
"You belong here now, with me"
belong/possess
"I belong in the sky"
she's firm and consistent and Owen is an idiot if he doesn't expect this because she told him every which way.
"What about me?"
Owen keeps giving orders, can't and that. and then he gets selfish.
So she ties him up and kisses him?
... okay ...
"What memories I'm taking with me"
compare 1-13, "I'd say thanks for the memories"
compare what Torchwood *does* to people. names and memories.
And in the end, Owen backs off, though he holds on to the door frame right until the point he'd get squished. Though with extreme reluctance, he lets her go. It's not like she has to hit him or anything.
Which, er, is more generous of him than one of my models of Owen would suggest.
And away she goes.
opposite shot of when they started, big sky and airplane and Torchwood on the tarmac - but only Owen this time.
And Jack is still in the car. Which in TVland terms is a very long time.
We get all three of them perspective on the three visitors, inside their minds remembering type flashbacks, but it still goes back to Owen watching the plane and the symmetry in the last images.
And then the screen goes white. Rift then.
The more likely ending involves air accidents from unauthorised take offs and/or running out of fuel and crashing in the sea, or just undignified landing again. But we get the dramatic music send off.
So this episode is very well constructed, in character, uses everyone except Tosh (she gets a couple of lines of data provision is all), and with each character's endings consistent and emotional.
I just really really wish they hadn't done that. You don't help people kill themselves. Ever.
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no subject
Date: 2007-02-05 07:45 am (UTC)This is one of those times when I get pissed off about the "immortality is a curse, oh woe is me" thing - because I think I'd be delighted to have it. Sure, I'd outlive my husband, but I might anyway!
The whole store-visit thing was just adorable. Ianto's ability to add things up like that - wow, that's got to come naturally, I don't think you could learn to do that with an ordinary brain (of course this is coming from me, who cannot calculate a tip).
I felt like the women who came in from the Rift seemed from much earlier than the 50s, especially Emma! They were taking tea out of tea bags - but tea bags were sold in 1904 according to Wikipedia.
I think of the three I like Emma best. She's almost more like moving to a new school, than having a big trauma.
Owen thinking that "having children without sex" was the greatest invention of the age - I suspect Diane would be more impressed with the opposite i.e. much more reliable contraception that was available in the 50s.
I believe that (probably not consciously) Owen fell for Diane because he *knew* she wasn't going to stick around. This is a woman who dates a married man to avoid attachment! And what does she love to do? FLY AWAY! And she does, and it's very sad for Owen, but can you honestly picture him in a committed relationship, or a marriage, with ANYONE? Maybe in ten years' time when he's grown up a bit, but NOW? Instead he has the tragic lost love, which doesn't interfere a bit with his future dating and mating.
Owen's wrists - watch on one, leather band on the other. Since everything a character wears is chosen for specific effect...
JACK also wears a watch on one wrist, and a leather band (but with the magic future stuff in it) on the other! Owen would like to be Jack. SECOND IN COMMAND DAMMIT!
And, trivial as it is compared with the big stuff in this episode, that was a really rotten thing to do to Ianto's car.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-05 09:29 am (UTC)doh!
yes.
... but I don't get the same visual impression from Jack. Though the stuff on both wrists thing do definitely apply to him. And also added random chains.
also, yes, about the car.
... website!Jack suggested it be valet cleaned :eyeroll:
Owen's subconscious doesn't like him very much.
... actually, very true and explaining much ...
This is one of those times when I get pissed off about the "immortality is a curse, oh woe is me" thing - because I think I'd be delighted to have it. Sure, I'd outlive my husband, but I might anyway!
It always strikes me as so teenage to get woeful about living. Because living is yaay.
Other people living is also yaay.
And that would be where it weren't easy for Jack, if he cared. Stupid and backwards and giving up far too easy, but not heart-easy to let someone die.
Owen thinking that "having children without sex" was the greatest invention of the age - I suspect Diane would be more impressed with the opposite i.e. much more reliable contraception that was available in the 50s.
*nods*
another example of Owen's complete misunderstanding of her then.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-06 02:44 am (UTC)Considering how much he gets laid, Owen doesn't seem to understand a whole lot about women in general!
no subject
Date: 2007-02-06 07:29 pm (UTC)Thought I might chip in about the football. Okay, football, isn't my thing, but I've picked up a few bits. The main one is that football teams are very location-bound - it's even in their names, for the most part. (Cardiff City, Manchester United etc). Generally, where people live determines what their affiliation to a team will be. The players may chance, but the club lives on.
Some clubs are decades old - Sheffield Football Club, for example, was started in 1857 and is still going strong. It's not unusual at all that John would find a link through football - it's something fairly stable, a wide-spread community that he still belongs to. And John has a desperate need to belong.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-06 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-06 08:46 pm (UTC)