phrase origin

[beccaelizabeth]

okay, apparently "Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?" is from Star Wars, ie the film that has existed as long as I have and permeates my consciousness.

Which wouldn't be a problem, but I just had Ethan quote it in 1975, when it wouldn't be said until 1977.

Aside from making Lucas nick it from Ethan, it has been suggested there must be something similar in classical literature, ie that huge great lot of writing I know nowt about.

So, friends list, any ideas?

Comments

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

be, I've said this on the S'cubie board but want to repeat here: first of all, I don't think the phrase is unique to George Lucas. Even if that exact set of words is, the formulation is old and nearly archetypical, and can be derived from such proverbial sayings as "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king".

Secondly, if Ethan is saying it in 1975, in England, it's quite possible it would spread from there to California in two years as a catch phrase or bit of folk wisdom or something Roger Waters said in an interview in Top of the Pops.

It's a natural phrasing of an easily observed phenomenon, and not like having him say, for instance, "These are not the droids you're looking for."

Julia, being old and cranky and leaning on memories of seeing Star Wars hal way through my second college degree

[that_mireille]

Hm. I think that particular phrasing is rather recognizable, and whether it can be plausibly explained or not, is going to throw readers out and make them thing "but isn't that from Star Wars?" But a slight rephrasing would probably work.

(No, the everyday person probably isn't going to recognize the "fool who follows the fool" quote - but in the subset of "people who read fanfic", I suspect more people will than not.)

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

(No, the everyday person probably isn't going to recognize the "fool who follows the fool" quote - but in the subset of "people who read fanfic", I suspect more people will than not.)

Well, that subset of people who read fanfic and watch Star Wars; what you seem to have missed from my comment was that I'm convinced that that phrase is one I encountered before Star Wars came out, in exactly that wording or one very similar, and I am unconvinced that Lucas deserves credit for it.

If be feels the need to change it because people will think she's quoting Lucas, that's her call; mine is that it is too simple and natural an expression of a widely understood observation about human nature to give any individual priority on its use.

Julia, old, and widely read

[47-trek-47.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I didn't recognize it as Star Wars... and it sounds very much like something Ethan would say. I liked the line, too.