Ethan

[beccaelizabeth]

Some people perceive Ethan as obviously gay, or even a cliche of gayness. Other people seem to believe he is straight. I think of him as bi in an anything-that-moves kind of way, open to experience. But I'm trying to think of where any of that comes from in canon. Specifically I'm trying to narrow it down to perceptions of the episode 'Halloween'. I can point to bits in 'A New Man' when he seems to be trying to seduce Giles, and of course he gives the waitress his number. But as far back as Halloween some people were reading Ethan as queer, and I'm wondering why. Body language? Manner of speech? The thing where he is selling dresses? Something else? I wonder, so I ask. Please to be being specific if you can.
Thanks.

Comments

[wisdomeagle]

Welllll, I'm not the best person to talk about it, since I entered fandom knowing like three facts, and one of them was "Giles/Ethan is totally canon" or something along those lines...

But I think in a sense what makes Ethan code as queer for so many of us is Giles. In the same way that Tara codes as queer because of Willow. If you're defined in relation to another character, and that relationship is ambiguously sexual and the character is the same sex, then you're defined as queer.

And I haven't seen "Halloween" in a really long time, so I doubt I can be more articulate or specific. Sorry. :/

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

When audiance at Buffycon asked Robin Sachs about whether or not Ethan was gay, he responded that he was instructed to play the character ambiguous.

I definitely see it in his body language when dealing with Giles; there's an attraction there and familiarity. Compare that with the seen in the Eyghon episode where Ethan has captured Buffy and is tattooing her. If Robin was just playing Ethan as sensual, that scene would have been layered with subtext -- and if it had been, I suspect there would have been a flurry of fanfic around it.

I don't remember the moment when Ethan gave the waitress his number, but knowing Ethan, I could come up with a dozen reasons he did that, which don't involve him actually wanting a date. I can see Ethan as gay or bi.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Heh, I wrote an Ethan/Buffy almost drabble-sized ficlet on the tattooing for someone and it turned out to be so very full of Ethan/Giles sub-text it didn't really count. ::grin::

I saw a clip of Robin talking - don't know which con - and he said something like Brits always get to play the 'gay terrorists' and he laughed and said Ethan was certainly a very happy sort of terrorist or something.

I've just seen him as Giles' ex for so long now it's hard to pin down why - but I've read some good essays on the canonical clues to their relationship; like the way Giles just walks up to him and grabs him the The Dark Age without hesitating; total familiarity and relaxed about it, although Giles isn't a very 'touchy' person otherwise.

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

I wrote an Ethan/Buffy almost drabble-sized ficlet on the tattooing

Heh - I knew that statement of mine was a good way to find fic on that scene. But yes, it doesn't seem to matter who Ethan is paired with, Giles is lurking somewhere in the background because what we've seen in canon is the two of them focused so intently on each other.

Actually, it's rare thing in early Buffy for a villian to be focused on a supporting cast member as an individual. The bug teacher was looking for guys that fit Xander's bill. Ditto the demon Willow released from the book, their relationship being more created from circumstances. Lots of vamps showed up to interact with the slayer and made their interactions with Buffy personal. The fact is that even when Ethan is causing trouble with Buffy, it is only ever a tactic to get Giles attention.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

The fact is that even when Ethan is causing trouble with Buffy, it is only ever a tactic to get Giles attention.

Feels that way to me as well ::nods:: And I'm sure he knew who Buffy was; the way he came out from the back of the shop just to serve her was too pointed.

I love the tattooing scene; both of them are perfect in it. And the way Ethan says 'Sweet child' so indulgently just before he tells her she can scream if she wants to, without ever making that in the least bit melodramatic, just makes me shiver. Brilliant.

[akam1.livejournal.com]

I remember when I saw Halloween the first time and Ethan was trying to sell Buffy the dress. I got the vibe that he was interested in her. Then Giles goes to the shop and confronts Ethan in the back room and... well, the way Giles, who to that point hadn't been a physical/touchy character, immediately has his hands on Ethan (okay, in violence, but still)and Ethan allows it and, even with the pain, seems pleased by it. And the way Ethan was taunting him with familiarity and, maybe, bitterness, both made me go hmmm, I think this is a failed couple we're looking at. Spouse, who is not one who sees slash everywhere, even when I point it out to him, instantly agreed. We also speculated that Ethan was interested in Buffy but only because she belongs to Giles... and she's the Slayer but Slayerness was secondary.

Further episodes with Ethan only cemented my impressions of Ethan as a opportunistic sexual being although I can't pinpoint quite why. Maybe it was his attitude or, as we found out more about his past and his current doings, it just made sense to me. Personally, I believe Ethan would have sex with whoever was available, men, women, demons, whatever. However, I believe at the time he and Giles were first together, because of the times or circumstances or experimentation or whatever, Ethan and Giles both were basically bi.

[wolfling]

Well for me, I was only watching sporadically second season and missed Hallowe'en so my first exposure to Ethan was Dark Age. The plot with a past of demon orgies among a group that only included one woman certainly helped with the idea that there was more than m/f experience for both Ethan and Giles, but I think it was the way the two of them interacted that really cemented in my head Ethan/Giles.

There was a chemistry there, the way the two characters interacted, the way that Giles, who was not the most touchy feely person on the show, especially back in his repressed tweedy days, seemed to always immediately lay his hands on Ethan. And in the way that Ethan knew exactly what buttons to push to get a... err... rise out of Giles. That showed an intimate knowledge of Giles' reactions and that he was deep enough in Giles' emotions that he could bypass all that repressed Watcher control with nothing much more than a grin and the uttering of a nickname.

It's difficult now to look back and talk about my first impressions because I've thought so much more about those characters and their interactions since then, but I think that's what it boiled down to. Ethan read as gay to me because of the way he and Giles reacted to each other.

As for why he didn't read as possibly bi to me, I think that has to do with the fact that there isn't the same heavy emotional resonance behind any interactions we see between him and women. Even in New Man, his giving the waitress his number seemed more like something done to get a reaction out of Giles than any real flirting. The only really emotional moment with a female character that quickly comes to mind for Ethan would be in Band Candy when he's picked up the crobar and is going to bash Buffy's skull in -- which is pretty far from attraction. In my eyes that was still all about Giles.

Of course my first slash pairing was Mulder/Krycek so I came into watching Buffy with the idea that personal violence, especially out of a usually very controlled character can equate to repressed desire so I may have been already biased toward interpreting events that way.

[jadelennox]

here from su_herald:

Heh. I was going to post the very minor point is that Americans tend to have their gaydars confused by British men at the best of times, especially pointy-chinned Englishmen in open necked shirts who have a mysterious past history with another man. But you aren't American, are you? So I suppose it doesn't apply. :)

[quasi-hayley.livejournal.com]

Chaos Child (http://onenine85.net/ethan) has some stuff on that. Quite a bit of stuff on that in fact.