![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethWell dressed English science fiction hero
This zoomed in very quickly on a definition of well dressed that left out everyone I’d thought of. Except Ianto. But I stuck around because every time I was getting bored and trying to think of a way of saying ‘class’ without sounding Marxist something interesting got said.
It also definitely meant *men*. Women were only mentioned in passing as not fitting these rules. *sigh*
So:
US hero all leather and lycra
UK prefer suits
Fans aren’t always black t-shirt and jeans. (Just all the ones in view that weren’t on the panel.)
Waistcoats. You don’t see a USA waistcoat.
[also they don’t know what it should be called]
PC: Victorian / Edwardian well dressed *gentleman* adventurer.
60s Victorian chic. Dandy in the street.
Unruffled
British.
USA: Leather and lycra.
Secret identities.
Masked.
Traditional UK hero is part of the establishment
Traditional USA hero is distrustful of the establishment
Going back to Zorro who was hiding from the authorities
[Is Robin Hood not traditional? Or just not masked?]
A public hero ‘ought’ to be maskless.
Military uniform, like Dan Dare
Modern dandy contrasts
Good 3 piece suits
USA imagines UK in union jack [as the Other that’s the distinctive feature]
UK imagines suits [as we know we’re UK and think of groups distinctive within that]
8th Doctor – Doc Holliday
Preservation of ‘gentleman’ in Wild West
British fashion as represented by US
Very meta
Wild Wild West steampunk
Other eras?
… just Victorian he’s saying.
[uncomfortably Empire? Colonialist?]
Modern dress sense lost due to USA [?!]
Uniform
Suits as uniform
Uniform
Dan Dare military chic
Captain Jack sloppy military
Ianto :-) Suit
But only Ianto in moder SF.
Giles: Brit as seen by USA
Tweed [um, only in first 2 seasons, changed over time]
Suits as control
British hero always in control
US reactive [out of control, reacting to situation]
Emotional control
Well dressed = intelligent [BE thinks they’re talking class without the word again]
‘Macho’ involves making pain OR taking pain
Ripping the suit
More often villains in suits now.
Doctor Who no longer from authority
Loses the Victorian thing.
Brit hero emotions: invisible mask.
MIB: hero + mindwipe, secret control
Delgado master, Nehru suit. Not establishment, slightly foreign.
There’s Scots formal wear, but not Welsh or Irish [on film]
Empire as evil => English; via USA
Suits for managers? Henchmen as employees.
Suits *as* mask = false image (villains)
Beards are evil, apparently.
Suits to blend, or, show difference.
Unflappable in the suit, suit is a weapon. [while they’re in the suit you know they’re in control, and so do other characters?]
Moral superiority + a deadly girlfriend
Dangerous women have to be feminised so they’re not threatening to audience. (70s only? Hah.)
Servalan: shocking and fantastic.
Punk Thatcher. All fascism, power and money.
Robin Hood – other great heroism.
Puffy sleeves. Lincoln green. Layers.
[B7 costumes]
Class! Mentioned by name. [by panel guy]
The Goodies. One of each. [I don’t know the show so I can’t recall the details of this point. One scruffy, one suit, sort of thing.]
PC: Robin Hood => Robin Hoodie; Maid Mario invented knitting; Guy in the motorcycle boots clearly invented the motorcycle.
Jeeves & Wooster.
Sherlock Holmes.
Suit: precise, controlled, unflustered.
PC: ‘Prisoner’ clothes & power structures; symbols of Oxbridge / public school.
American scruffy … UK punk
(I keep wanting to mention beige raincoat)
Arthur Dent: well dressed, considering. It’s a very smart dressing gown…
Categories:
Accidental tourist
Expat
Military
Gentleman adventurer
Red Dwarf 3 groups again, military, antihero covered in badges, evening dress suit.
Cat… makes his own style.
Cat really well dressed for his culture.
Captain John: Carnaby Street.
Don’t know if his outfit comes straight from the battlefield or from the shops then.
Forefront of fasion / fashion victim.
/panel
Okay, so those aren’t very coherent notes.
Clothes are signifiers of class, and the relationship of that character to the class system. Smart suits and no mask says they’re the establishment. Scruffy and covered in badges is counterculture. Masked is hiding from the establishment. Clothes are never innocent. And many shows difference their heroes by their styles.
Not my favourite panel. Invisible womens.
This zoomed in very quickly on a definition of well dressed that left out everyone I’d thought of. Except Ianto. But I stuck around because every time I was getting bored and trying to think of a way of saying ‘class’ without sounding Marxist something interesting got said.
It also definitely meant *men*. Women were only mentioned in passing as not fitting these rules. *sigh*
So:
US hero all leather and lycra
UK prefer suits
Fans aren’t always black t-shirt and jeans. (Just all the ones in view that weren’t on the panel.)
Waistcoats. You don’t see a USA waistcoat.
[also they don’t know what it should be called]
PC: Victorian / Edwardian well dressed *gentleman* adventurer.
60s Victorian chic. Dandy in the street.
Unruffled
British.
USA: Leather and lycra.
Secret identities.
Masked.
Traditional UK hero is part of the establishment
Traditional USA hero is distrustful of the establishment
Going back to Zorro who was hiding from the authorities
[Is Robin Hood not traditional? Or just not masked?]
A public hero ‘ought’ to be maskless.
Military uniform, like Dan Dare
Modern dandy contrasts
Good 3 piece suits
USA imagines UK in union jack [as the Other that’s the distinctive feature]
UK imagines suits [as we know we’re UK and think of groups distinctive within that]
8th Doctor – Doc Holliday
Preservation of ‘gentleman’ in Wild West
British fashion as represented by US
Very meta
Wild Wild West steampunk
Other eras?
… just Victorian he’s saying.
[uncomfortably Empire? Colonialist?]
Modern dress sense lost due to USA [?!]
Uniform
Suits as uniform
Uniform
Dan Dare military chic
Captain Jack sloppy military
Ianto :-) Suit
But only Ianto in moder SF.
Giles: Brit as seen by USA
Tweed [um, only in first 2 seasons, changed over time]
Suits as control
British hero always in control
US reactive [out of control, reacting to situation]
Emotional control
Well dressed = intelligent [BE thinks they’re talking class without the word again]
‘Macho’ involves making pain OR taking pain
Ripping the suit
More often villains in suits now.
Doctor Who no longer from authority
Loses the Victorian thing.
Brit hero emotions: invisible mask.
MIB: hero + mindwipe, secret control
Delgado master, Nehru suit. Not establishment, slightly foreign.
There’s Scots formal wear, but not Welsh or Irish [on film]
Empire as evil => English; via USA
Suits for managers? Henchmen as employees.
Suits *as* mask = false image (villains)
Beards are evil, apparently.
Suits to blend, or, show difference.
Unflappable in the suit, suit is a weapon. [while they’re in the suit you know they’re in control, and so do other characters?]
Moral superiority + a deadly girlfriend
Dangerous women have to be feminised so they’re not threatening to audience. (70s only? Hah.)
Servalan: shocking and fantastic.
Punk Thatcher. All fascism, power and money.
Robin Hood – other great heroism.
Puffy sleeves. Lincoln green. Layers.
[B7 costumes]
Class! Mentioned by name. [by panel guy]
The Goodies. One of each. [I don’t know the show so I can’t recall the details of this point. One scruffy, one suit, sort of thing.]
PC: Robin Hood => Robin Hoodie; Maid Mario invented knitting; Guy in the motorcycle boots clearly invented the motorcycle.
Jeeves & Wooster.
Sherlock Holmes.
Suit: precise, controlled, unflustered.
PC: ‘Prisoner’ clothes & power structures; symbols of Oxbridge / public school.
American scruffy … UK punk
(I keep wanting to mention beige raincoat)
Arthur Dent: well dressed, considering. It’s a very smart dressing gown…
Categories:
Accidental tourist
Expat
Military
Gentleman adventurer
Red Dwarf 3 groups again, military, antihero covered in badges, evening dress suit.
Cat… makes his own style.
Cat really well dressed for his culture.
Captain John: Carnaby Street.
Don’t know if his outfit comes straight from the battlefield or from the shops then.
Forefront of fasion / fashion victim.
/panel
Okay, so those aren’t very coherent notes.
Clothes are signifiers of class, and the relationship of that character to the class system. Smart suits and no mask says they’re the establishment. Scruffy and covered in badges is counterculture. Masked is hiding from the establishment. Clothes are never innocent. And many shows difference their heroes by their styles.
Not my favourite panel. Invisible womens.