So many spells, so little time
Jan. 12th, 2018 09:26 amI've been thinking about magic, again again. I get like that when I feel like I can't get things done in brickspace life, so, a lot. But I'm also attempting plot in a magic using 'verse, so, some understanding of system and reach required.
I've previously done endless spreadsheets to figure that, by the GURPS rules for study hours in character point equivalents, a mage can learn between 5 and 19 character points a year, depending how much is job, how much study by yourself, how much taught.
It can actually be as low as 2.5 if you only have a job and don't study, but, GURPS does reckon you get 2.5 CP every year from just doing a job, so that's nice, even if you do have to put them all into job related skills.
I didn't include Intensive because that's boot camp and the rule book is pretty clear there are very limited opportunities for that, but with sixteen hour days of twice as effective study and no weekends or holidays in the base assumptions you get about 58 CP a year *without* the Magery boost, which is enough to boost your basic stats, let alone your skills. However such courses are very much assumed to run for much less than a year, so, not so much likely.
Studying things that are not magic caps at a lower level, because Magery gives you a percentage boost to speed of learning magic. At Magery 0, or for things unmagical, between 5 and 13 CP a year is the best you get.
GURPS assumes college gives you 10CP a year, which isn't what I get from doing the math on actual courses, that comes out way lower with holidays and fewer teaching hours. But it's in that range of theoretically possible.
Magery gives the boost to learn spells up to 19 a year, and if you're learning that fast, you have enough Magery to learn any spell in existence.
I have previously got that far and noted that 19 spells gets you to Resurrection by the longest chain, so who would even need more than a year? That's spectacularly complex magic, and world changing, and you can do it as a freshman, if you can power it. Seems a little wonky.
But today I was thinking, there's 850 odd spells in my GURPS spreadsheet, and I haven't even added the gender spells from that one Pyramid. I invented a bunch of elemental spells last time I was poking those colleges, for things that should be logically possible cause they are in other elements. The Fire college looks kind of rubbish compared to a decent TL8 flamethrower, let alone grenades, and nobody has invented a magical nuke, even assuming the power requirements would be spectacular. You can't even say it would unbalance the game, because see real nukes. Plus every single Shapeshift spell is a separate spell, so if you want to be a wolf and an owl you learn it twice, and that's just for starters.
So if a magic user is zooming along a particular prerequisite chain to achieve a specific thing, they can do it in a year. But if they want to learn Magic, in general, they've got their 19 a year and like 900 options in front of them. Anyone spending a solid year thinking of nothing but magic kind of has to want one of the other very badly. So you'd get mages who really wanted That One Thing, like for example raising the dead, but you'd also get mages who just have to know how it works, and would feel like a smart kid with a university prospectus and only the one lifetime to go around.
( Read more... )
Game balance as a concept, making sure all the character classes are going to be useful, kind of makes magic not special by design. I mean, the same number of points in any other skill would add up as useful, if designed properly. So that leaves you stuck wondering why risk it.
Plus the entire reason the real world shifted to boom sticks instead of archery was the same amount of time going in *didn't* get you the same amount of skill or ability to hurt people coming out. Archery takes a lifetime investment of regularly maintained work and minimum stats, like magery. Firearms have some chance of hurting the enemy if you know which end the boom goes out of. They can be used at default, and spells cannot. It would take some spectacular advantage to magic to make it worth the time.
And the kinds of things we can't so at all with science tend to dip into the Restricted section, like Mind Control or Necromancy.
Or any variety of shapeshifting. Got to admit, many people would put in the time to be able to be a cat. Or whatever else.
( Read more... )
I've previously done endless spreadsheets to figure that, by the GURPS rules for study hours in character point equivalents, a mage can learn between 5 and 19 character points a year, depending how much is job, how much study by yourself, how much taught.
It can actually be as low as 2.5 if you only have a job and don't study, but, GURPS does reckon you get 2.5 CP every year from just doing a job, so that's nice, even if you do have to put them all into job related skills.
I didn't include Intensive because that's boot camp and the rule book is pretty clear there are very limited opportunities for that, but with sixteen hour days of twice as effective study and no weekends or holidays in the base assumptions you get about 58 CP a year *without* the Magery boost, which is enough to boost your basic stats, let alone your skills. However such courses are very much assumed to run for much less than a year, so, not so much likely.
Studying things that are not magic caps at a lower level, because Magery gives you a percentage boost to speed of learning magic. At Magery 0, or for things unmagical, between 5 and 13 CP a year is the best you get.
GURPS assumes college gives you 10CP a year, which isn't what I get from doing the math on actual courses, that comes out way lower with holidays and fewer teaching hours. But it's in that range of theoretically possible.
Magery gives the boost to learn spells up to 19 a year, and if you're learning that fast, you have enough Magery to learn any spell in existence.
I have previously got that far and noted that 19 spells gets you to Resurrection by the longest chain, so who would even need more than a year? That's spectacularly complex magic, and world changing, and you can do it as a freshman, if you can power it. Seems a little wonky.
But today I was thinking, there's 850 odd spells in my GURPS spreadsheet, and I haven't even added the gender spells from that one Pyramid. I invented a bunch of elemental spells last time I was poking those colleges, for things that should be logically possible cause they are in other elements. The Fire college looks kind of rubbish compared to a decent TL8 flamethrower, let alone grenades, and nobody has invented a magical nuke, even assuming the power requirements would be spectacular. You can't even say it would unbalance the game, because see real nukes. Plus every single Shapeshift spell is a separate spell, so if you want to be a wolf and an owl you learn it twice, and that's just for starters.
So if a magic user is zooming along a particular prerequisite chain to achieve a specific thing, they can do it in a year. But if they want to learn Magic, in general, they've got their 19 a year and like 900 options in front of them. Anyone spending a solid year thinking of nothing but magic kind of has to want one of the other very badly. So you'd get mages who really wanted That One Thing, like for example raising the dead, but you'd also get mages who just have to know how it works, and would feel like a smart kid with a university prospectus and only the one lifetime to go around.
( Read more... )
Game balance as a concept, making sure all the character classes are going to be useful, kind of makes magic not special by design. I mean, the same number of points in any other skill would add up as useful, if designed properly. So that leaves you stuck wondering why risk it.
Plus the entire reason the real world shifted to boom sticks instead of archery was the same amount of time going in *didn't* get you the same amount of skill or ability to hurt people coming out. Archery takes a lifetime investment of regularly maintained work and minimum stats, like magery. Firearms have some chance of hurting the enemy if you know which end the boom goes out of. They can be used at default, and spells cannot. It would take some spectacular advantage to magic to make it worth the time.
And the kinds of things we can't so at all with science tend to dip into the Restricted section, like Mind Control or Necromancy.
Or any variety of shapeshifting. Got to admit, many people would put in the time to be able to be a cat. Or whatever else.
( Read more... )