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beccaelizabethAvengers film spoilers
Fandom seems to have pretty much en masse decided Coulson isn't dead. Fair enough. Even watching the film for the first time I couldn't really feel it as a death, too much genre stuff contradicts it. And it's pretty much immediately pointed out that Fury is a lying liar who lies. So it isn't really being sold, there's too many clues sown.
Fanfic also tends to have it that Coulson was severely injured but alive. And Fury lied sort of behind his back. ... though my sample may well be skewed by the 'oh no Clint I'd never lie to you *smooches*' resolution of most of what I read.
But from the film we have relevant clues:
Fury lied about the cards.
Coulson told him to use the death to bond the Avengers.
Tony had that line about a 'life model decoy' sort of at random when Phil first arrives.
Most logical conclusion: Coulson sent an LMD after Loki, and used the apparent death to manipulate the Avengers.
Tragic death averted, yaays!
... Coulson a manipulative sod just like Fury, possibly less yaays for fanfic purposes.
All I know about LMDs is from looking them up on wikis, I don't read Marvel, but wiki suggests LMDs have thought waves just like the people they're based on and/or are remote controlled or something. Is confusing. I only noticed the phrase because there's some fanfic that uses that explanation. But it kind of skipped over the thing where it shifts it from 'Fury told us you were dead' to 'you told us you were dead'.
I read a lot more stuff where Coulson is the SHIELD dude who is loyal and trustworthy and on the Avengers side, defending them from Fury's sneaky ways, than I do ones where Coulson is, well, a SHIELD dude, and sneaky with it.
I read a thing about Coulson's suits that points out that the early suits don't really fit, but the Avengers suit is totally swish expensive perfectly fitted suit. Either he learned how to wear a suit in the space of six months (after making friends with Pepper, so not entirely impossible) or the suits are his camouflage and he wears ones appropriate to the status he's presenting himself as having. And that's usually a way of being a nobody much, the quiet man, the guy who makes appointments and talks to the assistant. MIBs only look weird when there's a bunch of them together, business suits are not that noteworthy day to day. Especially next to what the other SHIELD people wear, those tight things from the carrier.
The way he dresses makes me think he's the more covert, the sneakier, side of SHIELD.
Like when Ianto was basically infiltrating Torchwood Cardiff, he's busy being a nobody much, just the receptionist, in a much less nice suit than he eventually wears. Which, yes, could be because he just buys something nicer. But it's fun when he's sneaky.
Black Widow is all sneaky and turns herself into Tony bait and is really awesome good at that.
... I wouldn't like fic where Tony decides to keep on not trusting her though because when she's the only woman on the team it makes everything wonky weird.
Also, she did save the world big time.
But, SHIELD uses Widow's skill set, it used Coulson for a similar job, it sends them to be varying degrees of invisible sneaky and make Tony and Pepper trust them and find things out and attempt to control Tony.
Coulson is so sneaky the other people he works with don't know his security clearance. He's busy being nobody-much with them as well. (See The Consultant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgUjlH4vywM 50ish seconds in)
So, while I like the idea of the good boss, the good middle manager, the guy shielding his people from the unreasonable... I don't think it fits to have him just be on the Avengers side and not Fury's.
To have the Avengers persuaded of that, yes.
Especially if said Avengers never find out it was a decoy, and always believe it was Fury who decided to lie to them.
And the fic that reckons Fury wants the Avengers to find out he lied, get annoyed, and declare independence, that makes logical sense too. And if they're annoyed at how he used Phil and decide to take him with them, entirely sure he's on the side he fanboys, well, that's... handy.
Sneaky people are more fun.
To write, not to live with.
People who have to balance tricky allegiances have more story in them than someone firmly on one side.
I reckon that's Coulson.
He cares, he loses his cool around Captain America, he has the trading cards, he's a total fanboy, he really really likes the idea of heroes and the shining beacon of inspiration they can be... but he's more of a shadows guy, himself. Maybe one of those who reckon they do the nasty stuff to keep the nice people clean, an argument I have never felt persuasive but that gets a lot of play in certain genres. Maybe just a guy who gets things done, it doesn't have to get ugly, it's just not inspiring or particularly friendly.
It's really kind of creepy that they have a sniper and an assassin on this apparently heroic team.
I mean, Avenger isn't a good name for heroes. Vengeance isn't a good basis for much of anything.
Justice League is better.
... which is why I'm spending all my brain time on Avengers right now, clearly. :eyeroll:
... actually it's because my Justice League hasn't existed for decades, DC hasn't done anything I want to read for considerable time now, and the Avengers movie was soooooo shiny :-)
... also, Robert Downey Jr, who has had substantial brain space for quite some time now.
Okay, I'm rambling now. I ran out of thought.
Fandom seems to have pretty much en masse decided Coulson isn't dead. Fair enough. Even watching the film for the first time I couldn't really feel it as a death, too much genre stuff contradicts it. And it's pretty much immediately pointed out that Fury is a lying liar who lies. So it isn't really being sold, there's too many clues sown.
Fanfic also tends to have it that Coulson was severely injured but alive. And Fury lied sort of behind his back. ... though my sample may well be skewed by the 'oh no Clint I'd never lie to you *smooches*' resolution of most of what I read.
But from the film we have relevant clues:
Fury lied about the cards.
Coulson told him to use the death to bond the Avengers.
Tony had that line about a 'life model decoy' sort of at random when Phil first arrives.
Most logical conclusion: Coulson sent an LMD after Loki, and used the apparent death to manipulate the Avengers.
Tragic death averted, yaays!
... Coulson a manipulative sod just like Fury, possibly less yaays for fanfic purposes.
All I know about LMDs is from looking them up on wikis, I don't read Marvel, but wiki suggests LMDs have thought waves just like the people they're based on and/or are remote controlled or something. Is confusing. I only noticed the phrase because there's some fanfic that uses that explanation. But it kind of skipped over the thing where it shifts it from 'Fury told us you were dead' to 'you told us you were dead'.
I read a lot more stuff where Coulson is the SHIELD dude who is loyal and trustworthy and on the Avengers side, defending them from Fury's sneaky ways, than I do ones where Coulson is, well, a SHIELD dude, and sneaky with it.
I read a thing about Coulson's suits that points out that the early suits don't really fit, but the Avengers suit is totally swish expensive perfectly fitted suit. Either he learned how to wear a suit in the space of six months (after making friends with Pepper, so not entirely impossible) or the suits are his camouflage and he wears ones appropriate to the status he's presenting himself as having. And that's usually a way of being a nobody much, the quiet man, the guy who makes appointments and talks to the assistant. MIBs only look weird when there's a bunch of them together, business suits are not that noteworthy day to day. Especially next to what the other SHIELD people wear, those tight things from the carrier.
The way he dresses makes me think he's the more covert, the sneakier, side of SHIELD.
Like when Ianto was basically infiltrating Torchwood Cardiff, he's busy being a nobody much, just the receptionist, in a much less nice suit than he eventually wears. Which, yes, could be because he just buys something nicer. But it's fun when he's sneaky.
Black Widow is all sneaky and turns herself into Tony bait and is really awesome good at that.
... I wouldn't like fic where Tony decides to keep on not trusting her though because when she's the only woman on the team it makes everything wonky weird.
Also, she did save the world big time.
But, SHIELD uses Widow's skill set, it used Coulson for a similar job, it sends them to be varying degrees of invisible sneaky and make Tony and Pepper trust them and find things out and attempt to control Tony.
Coulson is so sneaky the other people he works with don't know his security clearance. He's busy being nobody-much with them as well. (See The Consultant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgUjlH4vywM 50ish seconds in)
So, while I like the idea of the good boss, the good middle manager, the guy shielding his people from the unreasonable... I don't think it fits to have him just be on the Avengers side and not Fury's.
To have the Avengers persuaded of that, yes.
Especially if said Avengers never find out it was a decoy, and always believe it was Fury who decided to lie to them.
And the fic that reckons Fury wants the Avengers to find out he lied, get annoyed, and declare independence, that makes logical sense too. And if they're annoyed at how he used Phil and decide to take him with them, entirely sure he's on the side he fanboys, well, that's... handy.
Sneaky people are more fun.
To write, not to live with.
People who have to balance tricky allegiances have more story in them than someone firmly on one side.
I reckon that's Coulson.
He cares, he loses his cool around Captain America, he has the trading cards, he's a total fanboy, he really really likes the idea of heroes and the shining beacon of inspiration they can be... but he's more of a shadows guy, himself. Maybe one of those who reckon they do the nasty stuff to keep the nice people clean, an argument I have never felt persuasive but that gets a lot of play in certain genres. Maybe just a guy who gets things done, it doesn't have to get ugly, it's just not inspiring or particularly friendly.
It's really kind of creepy that they have a sniper and an assassin on this apparently heroic team.
I mean, Avenger isn't a good name for heroes. Vengeance isn't a good basis for much of anything.
Justice League is better.
... which is why I'm spending all my brain time on Avengers right now, clearly. :eyeroll:
... actually it's because my Justice League hasn't existed for decades, DC hasn't done anything I want to read for considerable time now, and the Avengers movie was soooooo shiny :-)
... also, Robert Downey Jr, who has had substantial brain space for quite some time now.
Okay, I'm rambling now. I ran out of thought.
no subject
Date: 2012-08-15 07:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-08-15 01:33 pm (UTC)JLI era, UN backed peacekeepers.
Not the 'Trinity', super powered deities passing unilateral judgement. The higher powered the Justice League the more *worrying* they are.
no subject
Date: 2012-08-26 06:27 am (UTC)