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beccaelizabethDreamed about Loki. First his greens turned into all black stuff, then he turned into a black guy with dreadlocks, then some of those turned gold, then the gold ones turned out to be snakes and bit me a lot. He expected me to die but when I didn't he kept me around for a while. Those snakes could do a lot of interesting things.
It sometimes worries me when I make deals with deities in my sleep. Getting the attention of Trickster in my sleep though... oh dear.
Was reading a fic where everyone went sort of meta and protective of woobie Tony and went on about how everyone blames him for everything but he expects everyone to leave him so he wouldn't be the break up force so they went and threatened Steve because in that relationship everyone knows Tony is the more broken.
I'm not convinced.
Steve Rogers, movie version: born 1918, father died in the war, mother died slowly of lung ill, presumably while Steve got to watch. Movie is not specific about when those happened, but, orphan. And all stoic about it, not the brittle thing Tony shows us when nobody in his world is looking. But seriously, the stuck in the ice thing was not the first time he'd lost everything. Arguably not the second, when Bucky was his only friend for so long, but by then he had other people around. And then he loses his whole world and gets to see what everyone did with it while he was out. Response, every time, is anger, and jumping into fights he has no logical chance of winning. He risks himself freely and repeatedly, and it looks a lot like heroism, but there's a darker side to it where he just doesn't seem to count himself as much. Humble hero is all very well, and the whole awesome of the character idea is he finally gets a body that can live up to what his heart was willing to do, but the guy that jumps on the grenade is kind of worrying. And if you think Tony expects to lose everyone eventually, well, movie Tony is older, he's had Rhodey in his life since probably college, he's got Pepper, and he's got one huge betrayal that he's unlikely to get over, but he still had people (and builds people) he can rely on. More people than Steve. Yes, two friends is more. Steve had Bucky, and lost him. Steve loses everyone. They die. And the time jump means a lot of them live long lives first, so he probably feels like he shouldn't get angry or sad about them having happy, but it probably makes it feel as much like they left him than like they died. They left and lived without him and died and now he's lost them and he's beating up punch bags and feeling like he shouldn't have these feelings and just angry, all angry, and stuck between waiting for a fight and really very tired of it. Losing soldiers don't get easier. Losing everyone don't get more survivable, yet here he is, again.
Tony expects to be left? Steve doesn't expect to be picked in the first place. And when he is, he loses them, always.
They both need all the hugs.
Steve's younger and has less to hold on to, really very lost, doesn't think he's anything special.
And then they meet in Avengers and say all that stuff, Steve all angry at allies even, and I don't like fic that has that one conversation be something that takes months to get over because I thought the film got them over it before it ended (apart from how the things they said to each other were the things they each say to themselves at three in the morning, so there is no over it), but, that's their failure mode, the things they can say that rip each other up, they're already really good at that. Assuming it stays only as things said, because that could have turned into a punch up pretty easy. And that seemed like a very mutual reaction, not one you can pick sides on.
Tony expects to be left? Yes. So he's an utter dick to people to find where they'll go away. He destruct tests his best friends, we've seen him do it. Up to and including knock down drag out superpowered fights. The physical safety of even the people he cares about most is not guaranteed. Not that he counts his own physical safety as particularly important, he and Steve are too much alike there, why do we read that as heroic when he's mostly being stupid? He don't count himself as much, he'll keep burning through what's left of his life because he don't think he deserved his chance. They're both stupid like that.
So if they were in a relationship, you can see the failure modes, they'll pour everything into the mission and they won't like themselves very much so they'll be at best baffled by people who like them and maybe worry about their judgement and definitely worry about how they fooled them so far and how long they've got before they see right through them, and they'll destruct test or just get angry and they'll say things and maybe get in physical fights and being who they are know exactly how to damage the hell out of the other. And then hate themselves for it. Which loops back into the how can anyone actually good and smart and all that nice stuff actually like me? Which can go even more wrong. Their failure modes are obvious and explosive. And very clearly mutual, both directions, boom available from everywhere.
But we haven't seen Steve screw up his relationships on purpose, and we have seen Tony.
If anyone needs the talking to, they both do.
And a hurt him and I'll hurt you speech from the whole team? Well where does that leave them when they have perfectly normal people bump each other wrong sometimes hurts? Feeling like the world ended again is where.
The good in their hypothetical relationships, any loving relationship, is they'll find someone they like and respect loves them and conclude maybe they're actually worth loving and then get that warm glow of happy and possibly try slightly harder to stay alive and generally see themselves more as the audience sees them. So I like that, I like reading that, people who don't like themselves much get over it with warm snugglies, it's all good.
But the bad is potentially spectacular.
I haven't read the comics, I'm just working from the movies, and that's what I see. There's a bunch of other ways to read anything.
All this relationship stuff is where I spend most of my brain space, and it's useful for writing, but useless for college. For college I'd have to tie it all to ideology and isms and stuff. I don't even know. Is not so useful for writings. And more boring.
It sometimes worries me when I make deals with deities in my sleep. Getting the attention of Trickster in my sleep though... oh dear.
Was reading a fic where everyone went sort of meta and protective of woobie Tony and went on about how everyone blames him for everything but he expects everyone to leave him so he wouldn't be the break up force so they went and threatened Steve because in that relationship everyone knows Tony is the more broken.
I'm not convinced.
Steve Rogers, movie version: born 1918, father died in the war, mother died slowly of lung ill, presumably while Steve got to watch. Movie is not specific about when those happened, but, orphan. And all stoic about it, not the brittle thing Tony shows us when nobody in his world is looking. But seriously, the stuck in the ice thing was not the first time he'd lost everything. Arguably not the second, when Bucky was his only friend for so long, but by then he had other people around. And then he loses his whole world and gets to see what everyone did with it while he was out. Response, every time, is anger, and jumping into fights he has no logical chance of winning. He risks himself freely and repeatedly, and it looks a lot like heroism, but there's a darker side to it where he just doesn't seem to count himself as much. Humble hero is all very well, and the whole awesome of the character idea is he finally gets a body that can live up to what his heart was willing to do, but the guy that jumps on the grenade is kind of worrying. And if you think Tony expects to lose everyone eventually, well, movie Tony is older, he's had Rhodey in his life since probably college, he's got Pepper, and he's got one huge betrayal that he's unlikely to get over, but he still had people (and builds people) he can rely on. More people than Steve. Yes, two friends is more. Steve had Bucky, and lost him. Steve loses everyone. They die. And the time jump means a lot of them live long lives first, so he probably feels like he shouldn't get angry or sad about them having happy, but it probably makes it feel as much like they left him than like they died. They left and lived without him and died and now he's lost them and he's beating up punch bags and feeling like he shouldn't have these feelings and just angry, all angry, and stuck between waiting for a fight and really very tired of it. Losing soldiers don't get easier. Losing everyone don't get more survivable, yet here he is, again.
Tony expects to be left? Steve doesn't expect to be picked in the first place. And when he is, he loses them, always.
They both need all the hugs.
Steve's younger and has less to hold on to, really very lost, doesn't think he's anything special.
And then they meet in Avengers and say all that stuff, Steve all angry at allies even, and I don't like fic that has that one conversation be something that takes months to get over because I thought the film got them over it before it ended (apart from how the things they said to each other were the things they each say to themselves at three in the morning, so there is no over it), but, that's their failure mode, the things they can say that rip each other up, they're already really good at that. Assuming it stays only as things said, because that could have turned into a punch up pretty easy. And that seemed like a very mutual reaction, not one you can pick sides on.
Tony expects to be left? Yes. So he's an utter dick to people to find where they'll go away. He destruct tests his best friends, we've seen him do it. Up to and including knock down drag out superpowered fights. The physical safety of even the people he cares about most is not guaranteed. Not that he counts his own physical safety as particularly important, he and Steve are too much alike there, why do we read that as heroic when he's mostly being stupid? He don't count himself as much, he'll keep burning through what's left of his life because he don't think he deserved his chance. They're both stupid like that.
So if they were in a relationship, you can see the failure modes, they'll pour everything into the mission and they won't like themselves very much so they'll be at best baffled by people who like them and maybe worry about their judgement and definitely worry about how they fooled them so far and how long they've got before they see right through them, and they'll destruct test or just get angry and they'll say things and maybe get in physical fights and being who they are know exactly how to damage the hell out of the other. And then hate themselves for it. Which loops back into the how can anyone actually good and smart and all that nice stuff actually like me? Which can go even more wrong. Their failure modes are obvious and explosive. And very clearly mutual, both directions, boom available from everywhere.
But we haven't seen Steve screw up his relationships on purpose, and we have seen Tony.
If anyone needs the talking to, they both do.
And a hurt him and I'll hurt you speech from the whole team? Well where does that leave them when they have perfectly normal people bump each other wrong sometimes hurts? Feeling like the world ended again is where.
The good in their hypothetical relationships, any loving relationship, is they'll find someone they like and respect loves them and conclude maybe they're actually worth loving and then get that warm glow of happy and possibly try slightly harder to stay alive and generally see themselves more as the audience sees them. So I like that, I like reading that, people who don't like themselves much get over it with warm snugglies, it's all good.
But the bad is potentially spectacular.
I haven't read the comics, I'm just working from the movies, and that's what I see. There's a bunch of other ways to read anything.
All this relationship stuff is where I spend most of my brain space, and it's useful for writing, but useless for college. For college I'd have to tie it all to ideology and isms and stuff. I don't even know. Is not so useful for writings. And more boring.