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beccaelizabethSPOILERS for Avengers Age of Ultron movie. Spoilers. For moments I personally was happy not to have known about in advance.
So, they're playing with the hammer at the party, and it's all about who is worthy.
Thor. Thor is worthy. Thor is smug.
So what makes someone worthy?
Obviously I do not have a definitive inside scoop, this works at speed of plot, but what I figured before was it takes three things: willingness to fight the good fight, not wanting the power, and having died to save others.
I got these criteria from watching Thor. When he's all grabby for the power he does not get it, he gets it when he lays down his life for others, he remains the one who would walk away from it because he's interested in doing stuff to help not sitting around having the power.
The being willing to fight is only probably in there somewhere.
But every Avenger is willing to fight, at least sometimes, and ready to die for their cause. Steve and Tony actually have by most criteria. But in AoU they're neither of them worthy.
Tony kind of demonstrates why when he's giving his little speech before picking it up. Prima Nocta? Ew, arguable rape joke, I repressed by the end of the movie, I'd like to like the character. 'Firm but fairly cruel' is a piss take again, but, well, that would be unworthy. What he would do though is try and take it apart to see how it works, then use those principles to build weapons. At this point he wouldn't think of them as weapons. A shield for the world? No, Tony, armour that punches is in fact a weapon.
There's also .... okay, to get the most out of a kingdom, the ruler cannot be the only mind driving. I've said this before about dictators and why Loki isn't kinging right and for that matter why Thor wasn't at the start of Thor, just charging in and assuming people would follow. It sounds like a democratic understanding of how monarchy works, but if you're going to be a kingdom rather than a king with many hands, you've got to listen more than you speak. You've got to let other people do their own thinking and work at what they're best at.
Tony is... going in to this movie I assumed he was good at that. My read on JARVIS had him as a sentient level AI that Tony developed, raised as his kid to some extent, and partnered with. This film makes that interpretation much, much harder, thus killing JARVIS in more than one sense. But Tony giving the company to Pepper... could simply be him getting out of the paperwork. I was thinking he treats his friends right and enables others to be their best and even says he's not the boss Cap is the boss and yaay Tony personal growth and one style of effective leadership. Except then he gets scared and curls right in again, decides his decisions are the only important bit. And Ultron says he hasn't been making minds, he makes slaves. I consider that an epic misreading, and given that it's Ultron saying it it could well be, but... JARVIS dies, they have a sad about it and describe it in terms of killing, then Tony shuffles through some discs of inactive AI and picks out Friday. Like, girl Friday, someone who does all the work you tell them, the help. If he's hiring his AI and they have other stuff going on then he's the guy I thought he was, but if he's just keeping them boxed until he needs them to carry out his orders then he's making slaves. Or he hasn't made sentient AI in his own estimation, which would explain why he needed to add the staff / mind gem to the mix in the first place, because Ultron would be made with that extra spark.
I thought JARVIS was a person, I think we all thought JARVIS was a person, Tony's emotional reactions of don't leave me suggest he's a person, but this movie... makes less sense if you think he's a free willed person with the ability to not serve.
Some people have wrong ideas about service though. I mean, calling someone Sir doesn't mean they're the boss of your insides. Many free willed beings lived and died over several generations calling someone else Sir. Nothing wrong with that. Just one way to optimise your resources, helping someone with the big picture while you get your square of it done.
Quite a lot of Americans kind of think there's something wrong with it though. Seems classist to me. And anti military. And like we can all be the boss? Which, you know, not.
Speaking of military service: Steve. Why couldn't Steve lift the hammer?
Well it's possible he could. That reading is left open. It went *clink*. So, one, maybe he starts to lift it, under the assumption he's just a kid from Brooklyn so of course he can't, realises pissing about with his team mates power and sense of worth is kind of a dick move, and then fakes the strain thereafter. We never see anything to contradict that.
And I'm given to understand he can lift it in 616, so being unworthy here is... controversial.
Thing is, Thor has been at times unworthy, so it's a thing you move in and out of. Steve could be having an off day, or a bad few years.
So my imagined criteria above, service, self sacrifice, he's got that. He's lived it.
What's he missing?
Maybe willingness to walk away.
If his vision is in fact his fear now, maybe that's the war ending and dancing going empty and then what him and a lot of nothing. Maybe he's stuck.
I think Ultron accuses him of needing the war?
If that's all he's got, he's not worthy, right now.
:-(
Also, I got cranky about how Steve was written in this, but I think I mean, like, all the words, and the thing where he's the Captain and it's weirdly stiff. There's some good themey stuff, interesting character stuff, that just makes me have feels rather than, you know, frown at the writer. This with the endless war, ties with the being made, the being a creation of science himself, made with a mission. Hate to say it, but when Howard Stark set out to make a shield for the world, he did it a whole lot better than Tony. Erskine choosing a good man to build on? Well, Tony did that when he used JARVIS as part of the mix. Should have worked. Did, with Vision. Went sad with Ultron. I think Steve could see himself in that. That stuff is there in the movie. And he does explicitly see himself in the twins, who got enhanced to protect their country and turned out to be working for HYDRA for a while there. Themey goodness, performance... not so much goodness, and that joke with 'language'? Since when is Steve... eh. Since now, in the MCU. Lovely.
Also ffs why not let him say Assemble? It makes the last line an audience participation moment, so that's kind of cool, but it also leaves us all mildly frustrated, which, you know, not so cool.
Steve at the end though, with his friends and the new team, that leaves him balanced in an interesting place that could be good for him and could also be him giving up on being a person. Like, if he's decided Cap is all there is now, dumped Steve Rogers out, then the performance makes sense, but the guy is in deep trouble.
But, theme, worthy, best moment, I'm glad was a surprise, Vision.
I've seen somewhere reckon that he's 'worthy' because he's 'presumably' so innocent, being so new. But no, that doesn't fit.
Okay, so, he's newborn, so it's difficult to see how he can fit any criteria yet.
But he's popped up ready and willing to serve, and he hands the hammer over repeatedly. He's not trying to take the power. He's got something to do, hammer can come with or not.
That leaves having died to save others. Which, well, he's just born, so no. But he's built off JARVIS, in part, and JARVIS just did that. He died but his ethos of service was so strong that the unaware parts he scattered continued to protect others. They were drawn together and Tony intended to pour some version of JARVIS in to the new body. But then the plans got interrupted, so nobody got their entire plan done.
Vision is JARVIS + ULTRON + some unknowns.
VIS I ON
The I in the middle between the AI equivalent of the falling angel and the rising ape.
That's some quality naming right there, I'm sure writer had fun with that naming.
And now he's got some quality angst set up, because sure he could live up to JARVIS, but JARVIS was all service and praise for his creator (huh, unfallen, still angel style) and that's a little limiting? But Ultron epic rebelled and got really cranky about it. er, attempted genocide needs a better descriptor than really cranky, sorry. But Ultron is... well, as a dad, he's up there with Bruce's, which is saying something. The Avengers almost all have a dad to cope with. Natasha had an abusive system. Steve had a ghost. Not quite the same. But still, that oh shit I might turn out like my father, combined with the Stark typical hey everyone expects me to turn out like my father and wants me to... yeah, Vision's got issues. And trying to be the I in the middle, shiny new and not defined by the mission? That's going to be fun.
I think Vision is worthy because he inherited good qualities from JARVIS and his other creators. It's not innocence, it's that given the chance he'll do things right.
Which is cool.
Cause everyone knowing where he comes from weighs opinion heavily the other way.
This morning, thinking about Age of Ultron, and just basically ignoring anything that's really obviously about future movies, it made more sense. I can see some coherent themes about family and connection and togetherness. I'm just having to work at it more than seems optimal.
So, they're playing with the hammer at the party, and it's all about who is worthy.
Thor. Thor is worthy. Thor is smug.
So what makes someone worthy?
Obviously I do not have a definitive inside scoop, this works at speed of plot, but what I figured before was it takes three things: willingness to fight the good fight, not wanting the power, and having died to save others.
I got these criteria from watching Thor. When he's all grabby for the power he does not get it, he gets it when he lays down his life for others, he remains the one who would walk away from it because he's interested in doing stuff to help not sitting around having the power.
The being willing to fight is only probably in there somewhere.
But every Avenger is willing to fight, at least sometimes, and ready to die for their cause. Steve and Tony actually have by most criteria. But in AoU they're neither of them worthy.
Tony kind of demonstrates why when he's giving his little speech before picking it up. Prima Nocta? Ew, arguable rape joke, I repressed by the end of the movie, I'd like to like the character. 'Firm but fairly cruel' is a piss take again, but, well, that would be unworthy. What he would do though is try and take it apart to see how it works, then use those principles to build weapons. At this point he wouldn't think of them as weapons. A shield for the world? No, Tony, armour that punches is in fact a weapon.
There's also .... okay, to get the most out of a kingdom, the ruler cannot be the only mind driving. I've said this before about dictators and why Loki isn't kinging right and for that matter why Thor wasn't at the start of Thor, just charging in and assuming people would follow. It sounds like a democratic understanding of how monarchy works, but if you're going to be a kingdom rather than a king with many hands, you've got to listen more than you speak. You've got to let other people do their own thinking and work at what they're best at.
Tony is... going in to this movie I assumed he was good at that. My read on JARVIS had him as a sentient level AI that Tony developed, raised as his kid to some extent, and partnered with. This film makes that interpretation much, much harder, thus killing JARVIS in more than one sense. But Tony giving the company to Pepper... could simply be him getting out of the paperwork. I was thinking he treats his friends right and enables others to be their best and even says he's not the boss Cap is the boss and yaay Tony personal growth and one style of effective leadership. Except then he gets scared and curls right in again, decides his decisions are the only important bit. And Ultron says he hasn't been making minds, he makes slaves. I consider that an epic misreading, and given that it's Ultron saying it it could well be, but... JARVIS dies, they have a sad about it and describe it in terms of killing, then Tony shuffles through some discs of inactive AI and picks out Friday. Like, girl Friday, someone who does all the work you tell them, the help. If he's hiring his AI and they have other stuff going on then he's the guy I thought he was, but if he's just keeping them boxed until he needs them to carry out his orders then he's making slaves. Or he hasn't made sentient AI in his own estimation, which would explain why he needed to add the staff / mind gem to the mix in the first place, because Ultron would be made with that extra spark.
I thought JARVIS was a person, I think we all thought JARVIS was a person, Tony's emotional reactions of don't leave me suggest he's a person, but this movie... makes less sense if you think he's a free willed person with the ability to not serve.
Some people have wrong ideas about service though. I mean, calling someone Sir doesn't mean they're the boss of your insides. Many free willed beings lived and died over several generations calling someone else Sir. Nothing wrong with that. Just one way to optimise your resources, helping someone with the big picture while you get your square of it done.
Quite a lot of Americans kind of think there's something wrong with it though. Seems classist to me. And anti military. And like we can all be the boss? Which, you know, not.
Speaking of military service: Steve. Why couldn't Steve lift the hammer?
Well it's possible he could. That reading is left open. It went *clink*. So, one, maybe he starts to lift it, under the assumption he's just a kid from Brooklyn so of course he can't, realises pissing about with his team mates power and sense of worth is kind of a dick move, and then fakes the strain thereafter. We never see anything to contradict that.
And I'm given to understand he can lift it in 616, so being unworthy here is... controversial.
Thing is, Thor has been at times unworthy, so it's a thing you move in and out of. Steve could be having an off day, or a bad few years.
So my imagined criteria above, service, self sacrifice, he's got that. He's lived it.
What's he missing?
Maybe willingness to walk away.
If his vision is in fact his fear now, maybe that's the war ending and dancing going empty and then what him and a lot of nothing. Maybe he's stuck.
I think Ultron accuses him of needing the war?
If that's all he's got, he's not worthy, right now.
:-(
Also, I got cranky about how Steve was written in this, but I think I mean, like, all the words, and the thing where he's the Captain and it's weirdly stiff. There's some good themey stuff, interesting character stuff, that just makes me have feels rather than, you know, frown at the writer. This with the endless war, ties with the being made, the being a creation of science himself, made with a mission. Hate to say it, but when Howard Stark set out to make a shield for the world, he did it a whole lot better than Tony. Erskine choosing a good man to build on? Well, Tony did that when he used JARVIS as part of the mix. Should have worked. Did, with Vision. Went sad with Ultron. I think Steve could see himself in that. That stuff is there in the movie. And he does explicitly see himself in the twins, who got enhanced to protect their country and turned out to be working for HYDRA for a while there. Themey goodness, performance... not so much goodness, and that joke with 'language'? Since when is Steve... eh. Since now, in the MCU. Lovely.
Also ffs why not let him say Assemble? It makes the last line an audience participation moment, so that's kind of cool, but it also leaves us all mildly frustrated, which, you know, not so cool.
Steve at the end though, with his friends and the new team, that leaves him balanced in an interesting place that could be good for him and could also be him giving up on being a person. Like, if he's decided Cap is all there is now, dumped Steve Rogers out, then the performance makes sense, but the guy is in deep trouble.
But, theme, worthy, best moment, I'm glad was a surprise, Vision.
I've seen somewhere reckon that he's 'worthy' because he's 'presumably' so innocent, being so new. But no, that doesn't fit.
Okay, so, he's newborn, so it's difficult to see how he can fit any criteria yet.
But he's popped up ready and willing to serve, and he hands the hammer over repeatedly. He's not trying to take the power. He's got something to do, hammer can come with or not.
That leaves having died to save others. Which, well, he's just born, so no. But he's built off JARVIS, in part, and JARVIS just did that. He died but his ethos of service was so strong that the unaware parts he scattered continued to protect others. They were drawn together and Tony intended to pour some version of JARVIS in to the new body. But then the plans got interrupted, so nobody got their entire plan done.
Vision is JARVIS + ULTRON + some unknowns.
VIS I ON
The I in the middle between the AI equivalent of the falling angel and the rising ape.
That's some quality naming right there, I'm sure writer had fun with that naming.
And now he's got some quality angst set up, because sure he could live up to JARVIS, but JARVIS was all service and praise for his creator (huh, unfallen, still angel style) and that's a little limiting? But Ultron epic rebelled and got really cranky about it. er, attempted genocide needs a better descriptor than really cranky, sorry. But Ultron is... well, as a dad, he's up there with Bruce's, which is saying something. The Avengers almost all have a dad to cope with. Natasha had an abusive system. Steve had a ghost. Not quite the same. But still, that oh shit I might turn out like my father, combined with the Stark typical hey everyone expects me to turn out like my father and wants me to... yeah, Vision's got issues. And trying to be the I in the middle, shiny new and not defined by the mission? That's going to be fun.
I think Vision is worthy because he inherited good qualities from JARVIS and his other creators. It's not innocence, it's that given the chance he'll do things right.
Which is cool.
Cause everyone knowing where he comes from weighs opinion heavily the other way.
This morning, thinking about Age of Ultron, and just basically ignoring anything that's really obviously about future movies, it made more sense. I can see some coherent themes about family and connection and togetherness. I'm just having to work at it more than seems optimal.
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Date: 2015-05-01 09:49 am (UTC)Actually I'm going with "He decided not to embarrass Thor because they both know he handed it back to the Big Puppy during the Battle of New York anyway."