... did we not watch the same movie?
May. 5th, 2015 01:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethI'm reading a meta about themes of family and legacy in Avengers Age of Ultron. So, SPOILERS
It talks about Ultron as Tony's child and Vision as Tony's grandchild, says Tony creates new life, and in the next breath says Bruce can't.
Um, Bruce did? Ultron is at least partly his angry violent baby too, and Vision is very much one of his. Tony had a whole speech about how he couldn't do it without him. Everyone's talking about Tony's kids, blaming Tony, Tony Tony Tony, but Bruce did the exact same things at the exact same times and didn't seem to... notice? Or get any blame, in universe.
I'm fuzzy on what exactly happened with JARVIS and Ultron and Vision on some levels. I mean, they talked about JARVIS getting killed, and in some ways treated him like another team member, but in others this film shut down the way we were all reading him as a sentient AI, by calling Ultron the first or making out he's new. Which I didn't understand. We've met JARVIS, he's snarky intelligent people. Tony cares about him a lot, says Daddy's home, says don't leave me buddy. I didn't think it was ambiguous, he's AI people. Tony made JARVIS alone, sure.
But Tony talked Bruce into working with him for both Ultron and Vision, both times talked like he couldn't do it alone, especially Vision.
JARVIS may or may not be dead? I didn't understand. Someone said he spoke after Tony got him back from defending the nuclear codes? But then when he was going into Vision he got the plug pulled and that meant Vision wasn't JARVIS and there is no JARVIS now?
Too many question marks. I'm smart and I watch all the movies and hang out in fandom, why it so difficult to follow this movie.
Someone on tumblr reckons Quicksilver killed JARVIS for good when he pulled the plug. Which would make the getting killed... it's not a consequence, but the 'didn't see that coming' happened right next to both incidents. Hmmm.
The thing is when Ultron kills JARVIS then Tony sees his own fear and Bruce sees his own rage - Ultron is from his first act both their babies.
And Bruce responds by deciding to run away and refusing to go Hulk and hit Ultron?
That... that could be character, there, if Bruce sees it that way too.
But I don't think that's a reading I can get from the film.
I don't know, I tuned out on the Hulk stuff big time, it turned into a big fight with... Tony in the Veronica they also built together... huh, so, if they are co-parents, that's another abusive relationship.
Which I had noticed. Science bros isn't doing too good for them. It's not ahead of the Natasha stuff because everyone is hitting him.
Honestly, running is the best thing he can do for himself, find another way to help and a team that doesn't hit you dude.
Veronica is not talky but does respond to voice commands. Probably not AI, just a suit designation, but ... kind of a Thing, given what else they built together.
(Also, I don't think the Vernoica works as a concept. Angry Hulk just got more angry, it was only sad oops Hulk that got stopped, when he was ready to stop himself.)
So, recap, Tony and Bruce built three AI/bots together, Veronica, Ultron, and Vision. Veronica is specifically built to protect the world from one of her parents, Ultron to protect the world in general, and Vision was intended to protect the world from Ultron but lucky guy gets no Mission Imperative type programming due to interruptions.
I think leaving Bruce out of this equation is misleading and unhelpful.
Also, why everyone blame Tony for everything? Only true for many things, really.
Oh, also, theme 'Together' : The Avengers are an unstable chemical reaction, right? And Tony and Bruce were together, but what they've got is fear and rage. They need stuff the others bring to it, Hawkeye's perspective from a distance, Cap's historical context, Natasha's people sense. Any one of those would have pointed out that a new person could be, you know, like their dads. But apparently what they needed to add to make Vision was Thor? Sooooo... if it's just Thor's power he got, kind of a problem. But Thor is Worthy, just like his zapped co-creation. Vision got that from him? Huh. Should we be counting Vision with four daddies then? They do seem to get along far better than any of the other Vision daddies.
But it makes 'Together' as an answer more difficult, because how much of what do they all need to bring to it?
It talks about Ultron as Tony's child and Vision as Tony's grandchild, says Tony creates new life, and in the next breath says Bruce can't.
Um, Bruce did? Ultron is at least partly his angry violent baby too, and Vision is very much one of his. Tony had a whole speech about how he couldn't do it without him. Everyone's talking about Tony's kids, blaming Tony, Tony Tony Tony, but Bruce did the exact same things at the exact same times and didn't seem to... notice? Or get any blame, in universe.
I'm fuzzy on what exactly happened with JARVIS and Ultron and Vision on some levels. I mean, they talked about JARVIS getting killed, and in some ways treated him like another team member, but in others this film shut down the way we were all reading him as a sentient AI, by calling Ultron the first or making out he's new. Which I didn't understand. We've met JARVIS, he's snarky intelligent people. Tony cares about him a lot, says Daddy's home, says don't leave me buddy. I didn't think it was ambiguous, he's AI people. Tony made JARVIS alone, sure.
But Tony talked Bruce into working with him for both Ultron and Vision, both times talked like he couldn't do it alone, especially Vision.
JARVIS may or may not be dead? I didn't understand. Someone said he spoke after Tony got him back from defending the nuclear codes? But then when he was going into Vision he got the plug pulled and that meant Vision wasn't JARVIS and there is no JARVIS now?
Too many question marks. I'm smart and I watch all the movies and hang out in fandom, why it so difficult to follow this movie.
Someone on tumblr reckons Quicksilver killed JARVIS for good when he pulled the plug. Which would make the getting killed... it's not a consequence, but the 'didn't see that coming' happened right next to both incidents. Hmmm.
The thing is when Ultron kills JARVIS then Tony sees his own fear and Bruce sees his own rage - Ultron is from his first act both their babies.
And Bruce responds by deciding to run away and refusing to go Hulk and hit Ultron?
That... that could be character, there, if Bruce sees it that way too.
But I don't think that's a reading I can get from the film.
I don't know, I tuned out on the Hulk stuff big time, it turned into a big fight with... Tony in the Veronica they also built together... huh, so, if they are co-parents, that's another abusive relationship.
Which I had noticed. Science bros isn't doing too good for them. It's not ahead of the Natasha stuff because everyone is hitting him.
Honestly, running is the best thing he can do for himself, find another way to help and a team that doesn't hit you dude.
Veronica is not talky but does respond to voice commands. Probably not AI, just a suit designation, but ... kind of a Thing, given what else they built together.
(Also, I don't think the Vernoica works as a concept. Angry Hulk just got more angry, it was only sad oops Hulk that got stopped, when he was ready to stop himself.)
So, recap, Tony and Bruce built three AI/bots together, Veronica, Ultron, and Vision. Veronica is specifically built to protect the world from one of her parents, Ultron to protect the world in general, and Vision was intended to protect the world from Ultron but lucky guy gets no Mission Imperative type programming due to interruptions.
I think leaving Bruce out of this equation is misleading and unhelpful.
Also, why everyone blame Tony for everything? Only true for many things, really.
Oh, also, theme 'Together' : The Avengers are an unstable chemical reaction, right? And Tony and Bruce were together, but what they've got is fear and rage. They need stuff the others bring to it, Hawkeye's perspective from a distance, Cap's historical context, Natasha's people sense. Any one of those would have pointed out that a new person could be, you know, like their dads. But apparently what they needed to add to make Vision was Thor? Sooooo... if it's just Thor's power he got, kind of a problem. But Thor is Worthy, just like his zapped co-creation. Vision got that from him? Huh. Should we be counting Vision with four daddies then? They do seem to get along far better than any of the other Vision daddies.
But it makes 'Together' as an answer more difficult, because how much of what do they all need to bring to it?
no subject
Date: 2015-05-09 11:35 pm (UTC)She was mind controlled at the time so that's... that's non consensual science babies with Ultron, that's a problem.
But her work was awesome and unparalleled brilliant science. I should totally mention her.