Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Jul. 7th, 2015 04:51 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethI've watched season two up as far as Ted.
It got much better and I'm enjoying the episodes now, up until this one, which creeps me the hell out way too much to decide if it's good or not.
I just don't necessarily have much to say about individual episodes. More about relationship arcs.
Like, Cordelia/Xander... the whole 'I hate you / kiss' thing is just about my least favourite thing in rom com. It's not okay. It's abuse hiding behind funny. And it is therefore entirely plausible that Xander would get in that kind of tangle, because good models, he lacks them. Also Cordelia is Cordelia shaped and I can quite understand the temptation. But, it's creepy, the way it happens. It's not even explicitly the thing where he keeps saving her life that attracts her - though it's also obviously the thing where he keeps saving her life, both in that particular moment and in a comparison with Willow and Oz. Life saving is a good thing in a romantic partner, Buffyverse is pretty clear. But the kissing, initially they can't even decide who it is starting it and they keep pushing apart and being all ew about it, and can it get more creepy than both sides feeling pounced? That's just blergh. Relationships of not-cute.
But then there's the episode Ted, and it's like there's a whole theme of messed up and abusive relationships, and Xander/Cordelia is one note in it. Clearly they are not serial killer screwed up. But, pretty sure they're not being held up as ideal there. Also, while Angel gets to play swooning damsel for a while and be darkly attractive in a whole new way (:eyeroll:) he keeps being surrounded by these reminders of how violent and atrocious he's been in the past. I mean, his dead ex didn't stay in the cupboard, she up and burned him a bunch. And being the voice of not-drugged reason about Ted turns out sort of poorly. Plus saying loneliness is the worst thing is kind of... is that why he's into her? Because lonely? Because there's 7 billion people on the planet, you need a more specific reason, really.
The way Xander was all helloooo at the new Slayer and 'I like that in a girl' is totally :eyeroll: at best, especially since Cordelia is right there, newly kissed, and having an ongoing bad day. Spike actually did better at that one, with the 'rather be fighting you anyway' sequence. Slayer is not sufficient characteristic for dating particular slayer neither.
Oz and Willow is way sweet. Like, the seeing her, and talking to her, and coming over to talk to her on purpose even, and then saving her life but then not wanting to talk about it. I like that because then it's not treating it as relationship progression or reason she should be talking to him. All else aside he's probably not keen on setting that up as the standard, since there's only so many arms to get shot in and it weren't fun the first time. But it's like when Xander saved Cordelia, he did it because it needed doing, the dating thing is quite seperate.
Except of course on the Doylist level where saving lives does tend to get the girl. Like, repeatedly. While knowing that it's not cool for them to act like they deserve it.
It's a cake and eat it move. Guys can be cool and not expect they're earning coupons towards girl kissing, but really, viewers, they're totally earning coupons there.
I think it bothers me because Xander saves Cordelia a bunch, and not so much saves other girls, so then it looks personal, rather than a general characteristic of Xander that he saves people in general.
Giles and Jenny... she shot him and then there's kissing? In an episode about creepy abusive relationships? That ... ew.
... it bothers me sometimes that Jenny doesn't seem to want to date the Giles she's got, what with the making him 'squirm' and the mocking and the taking him to things he loathes and then mocking when he speaks his real opinions of them and then he tries not to have opinions the next time with the monster trucks and... it just seems like he's trying to make himself small and put up with everything, because she's paying attention. And then because he feels guilty. And then there's shooting but he's not bothered? Because it's an accident, and okay, forgiving accidents is fair and fine, but why is this the story? This to me is not romance, it's... I really don't think it's my shipper biases showing, especially since my preferred pairing I know very well is unhealthy all over. I just don't think she's nice, especially not to him.
I'm avoiding mentioning actual Ted. Because ew. I watch all the vampire violence and it don't much bother me, but a bad 'dad' who threatens but only when her mom can't hear, and then goes through her stuff and has all those 'in my house' rules, and with the nailing the window shut so she can't escape, and the hitting... that's way too real and by far the creepiest.
The thing is though, the episode just kind of sidesteps the important bit in the middle, the thing where Buffy even according to herself just reacted emotionally and hit a guy because she wanted to because feelings, and then he fell down the stairs and apparently died. If he'd been ordinary human abusive creep he would have died dead. And she should have had to answer that. The way the episode handles it when he turns out to be a robot... I mean, yeah, but, she still knocked someone down stairs. It doesn't answer that.
A legit answer would be the one about how he'd already hit her and she needed to stop him. Something about what's the appropriate use of force in that situation, for a trained martial artist with super strength or otherwise, would be a reasonable answer.
The 'he was secretly evil' answer doesn't actually do anything except validate her perception of him as evil, and the thing where he hit her was, you know, not secret, still evil.
The whole 'vampires are creeps / that would be why we slay them' is fair enough, the thing with Angel and Kendra is about how we don't just kill vampires for being vampires, it's about if they're currently trying to hurt people. Though I've written before about how there should still be prisons and trials and stuff, the staking is just a reaction to limited resources and isn't ideal. But vampires are trying to kill people so killing them to stop them is arguably reasonable force.
Ted was killed for hitting Buffy and that's... borderline.
Like, later, he manages to knock her out for a while, so her perception she needed to fight him full on Slayer style was reasonable assessment of the force he could use. But we knew that after the fact? But Buffy had just been hit so she could figure from that. But...
A thing that bothers me about Buffy at this point, and keeps feeling relevant here, is how much her fighting and her feelings are tangled together. Like she tells Kendra that anger is totally useful and Kendra should be feeling it, and given the way Buffy survive and Kendra gets sent home, that seems reasonable. But, but, but, niggly objection. When Giles tries to tell Buffy to do or not do things then she pretty much bullies him into changing his mind. They've shown them training together and her getting sulky pout face and kicking the padding or hitting with sticks until he falls down or otherwise concedes and then declares a need to put ice on it or wait until feeling returns to the hit bits. She pushes Giles around in the most literal sense. And then in Ted there's the 'the subtext is rapidly becoming text' sequence, which is fun with words, but its in the middle of her hunting vampires. Like, she's fighting a vampire with Giles watching, and then she grabs a bin lid and hits and hits and hits it and Giles is all 'staking time now?' and she keeps going until she works out some of her aggression. Then she's all 'are there more' and he's like 'I hope not for their sake'. Because the point is that sure, vampires need stopping, but if Buffy is prolonging the fight so she can use one as a punch bag, that's actually not cool. That's her anger driving and not of the good.
Buffy's use of power is, at this point, tangled up with her emotional frustrations and aimed in ways that are... of some concern. And then here, she has bad feelings about her mom dating, and then when Ted hits her she was hoping he'd do that because now she gets to hit him and that she can do much harder. But that's not okay. If she's doing law enforcement, like the 'What's my Line' sub plot about careers, then beating up on someone because she's feeling bad is pretty clearly wrong.
Power fantasy of abused kids everywhere, sure, but, there's a line, and she might have been on the wrong side of it.
But the episode answers that by... shifting the discussion, making him secretly not human, and then the whole answer is woo Slayer instincts.
Like when Cordelia says there should be different rules for Slayers and Willow says sure in a fascist society, that's the characters dismissing an ugly possibility, but the text solidly supports it. The rules are different for protagonists. They get to be right.
Not cool. Not a complete answer, or a sufficient one.
But then this is only season 2 and there's many more Slayers to go.
It got much better and I'm enjoying the episodes now, up until this one, which creeps me the hell out way too much to decide if it's good or not.
I just don't necessarily have much to say about individual episodes. More about relationship arcs.
Like, Cordelia/Xander... the whole 'I hate you / kiss' thing is just about my least favourite thing in rom com. It's not okay. It's abuse hiding behind funny. And it is therefore entirely plausible that Xander would get in that kind of tangle, because good models, he lacks them. Also Cordelia is Cordelia shaped and I can quite understand the temptation. But, it's creepy, the way it happens. It's not even explicitly the thing where he keeps saving her life that attracts her - though it's also obviously the thing where he keeps saving her life, both in that particular moment and in a comparison with Willow and Oz. Life saving is a good thing in a romantic partner, Buffyverse is pretty clear. But the kissing, initially they can't even decide who it is starting it and they keep pushing apart and being all ew about it, and can it get more creepy than both sides feeling pounced? That's just blergh. Relationships of not-cute.
But then there's the episode Ted, and it's like there's a whole theme of messed up and abusive relationships, and Xander/Cordelia is one note in it. Clearly they are not serial killer screwed up. But, pretty sure they're not being held up as ideal there. Also, while Angel gets to play swooning damsel for a while and be darkly attractive in a whole new way (:eyeroll:) he keeps being surrounded by these reminders of how violent and atrocious he's been in the past. I mean, his dead ex didn't stay in the cupboard, she up and burned him a bunch. And being the voice of not-drugged reason about Ted turns out sort of poorly. Plus saying loneliness is the worst thing is kind of... is that why he's into her? Because lonely? Because there's 7 billion people on the planet, you need a more specific reason, really.
The way Xander was all helloooo at the new Slayer and 'I like that in a girl' is totally :eyeroll: at best, especially since Cordelia is right there, newly kissed, and having an ongoing bad day. Spike actually did better at that one, with the 'rather be fighting you anyway' sequence. Slayer is not sufficient characteristic for dating particular slayer neither.
Oz and Willow is way sweet. Like, the seeing her, and talking to her, and coming over to talk to her on purpose even, and then saving her life but then not wanting to talk about it. I like that because then it's not treating it as relationship progression or reason she should be talking to him. All else aside he's probably not keen on setting that up as the standard, since there's only so many arms to get shot in and it weren't fun the first time. But it's like when Xander saved Cordelia, he did it because it needed doing, the dating thing is quite seperate.
Except of course on the Doylist level where saving lives does tend to get the girl. Like, repeatedly. While knowing that it's not cool for them to act like they deserve it.
It's a cake and eat it move. Guys can be cool and not expect they're earning coupons towards girl kissing, but really, viewers, they're totally earning coupons there.
I think it bothers me because Xander saves Cordelia a bunch, and not so much saves other girls, so then it looks personal, rather than a general characteristic of Xander that he saves people in general.
Giles and Jenny... she shot him and then there's kissing? In an episode about creepy abusive relationships? That ... ew.
... it bothers me sometimes that Jenny doesn't seem to want to date the Giles she's got, what with the making him 'squirm' and the mocking and the taking him to things he loathes and then mocking when he speaks his real opinions of them and then he tries not to have opinions the next time with the monster trucks and... it just seems like he's trying to make himself small and put up with everything, because she's paying attention. And then because he feels guilty. And then there's shooting but he's not bothered? Because it's an accident, and okay, forgiving accidents is fair and fine, but why is this the story? This to me is not romance, it's... I really don't think it's my shipper biases showing, especially since my preferred pairing I know very well is unhealthy all over. I just don't think she's nice, especially not to him.
I'm avoiding mentioning actual Ted. Because ew. I watch all the vampire violence and it don't much bother me, but a bad 'dad' who threatens but only when her mom can't hear, and then goes through her stuff and has all those 'in my house' rules, and with the nailing the window shut so she can't escape, and the hitting... that's way too real and by far the creepiest.
The thing is though, the episode just kind of sidesteps the important bit in the middle, the thing where Buffy even according to herself just reacted emotionally and hit a guy because she wanted to because feelings, and then he fell down the stairs and apparently died. If he'd been ordinary human abusive creep he would have died dead. And she should have had to answer that. The way the episode handles it when he turns out to be a robot... I mean, yeah, but, she still knocked someone down stairs. It doesn't answer that.
A legit answer would be the one about how he'd already hit her and she needed to stop him. Something about what's the appropriate use of force in that situation, for a trained martial artist with super strength or otherwise, would be a reasonable answer.
The 'he was secretly evil' answer doesn't actually do anything except validate her perception of him as evil, and the thing where he hit her was, you know, not secret, still evil.
The whole 'vampires are creeps / that would be why we slay them' is fair enough, the thing with Angel and Kendra is about how we don't just kill vampires for being vampires, it's about if they're currently trying to hurt people. Though I've written before about how there should still be prisons and trials and stuff, the staking is just a reaction to limited resources and isn't ideal. But vampires are trying to kill people so killing them to stop them is arguably reasonable force.
Ted was killed for hitting Buffy and that's... borderline.
Like, later, he manages to knock her out for a while, so her perception she needed to fight him full on Slayer style was reasonable assessment of the force he could use. But we knew that after the fact? But Buffy had just been hit so she could figure from that. But...
A thing that bothers me about Buffy at this point, and keeps feeling relevant here, is how much her fighting and her feelings are tangled together. Like she tells Kendra that anger is totally useful and Kendra should be feeling it, and given the way Buffy survive and Kendra gets sent home, that seems reasonable. But, but, but, niggly objection. When Giles tries to tell Buffy to do or not do things then she pretty much bullies him into changing his mind. They've shown them training together and her getting sulky pout face and kicking the padding or hitting with sticks until he falls down or otherwise concedes and then declares a need to put ice on it or wait until feeling returns to the hit bits. She pushes Giles around in the most literal sense. And then in Ted there's the 'the subtext is rapidly becoming text' sequence, which is fun with words, but its in the middle of her hunting vampires. Like, she's fighting a vampire with Giles watching, and then she grabs a bin lid and hits and hits and hits it and Giles is all 'staking time now?' and she keeps going until she works out some of her aggression. Then she's all 'are there more' and he's like 'I hope not for their sake'. Because the point is that sure, vampires need stopping, but if Buffy is prolonging the fight so she can use one as a punch bag, that's actually not cool. That's her anger driving and not of the good.
Buffy's use of power is, at this point, tangled up with her emotional frustrations and aimed in ways that are... of some concern. And then here, she has bad feelings about her mom dating, and then when Ted hits her she was hoping he'd do that because now she gets to hit him and that she can do much harder. But that's not okay. If she's doing law enforcement, like the 'What's my Line' sub plot about careers, then beating up on someone because she's feeling bad is pretty clearly wrong.
Power fantasy of abused kids everywhere, sure, but, there's a line, and she might have been on the wrong side of it.
But the episode answers that by... shifting the discussion, making him secretly not human, and then the whole answer is woo Slayer instincts.
Like when Cordelia says there should be different rules for Slayers and Willow says sure in a fascist society, that's the characters dismissing an ugly possibility, but the text solidly supports it. The rules are different for protagonists. They get to be right.
Not cool. Not a complete answer, or a sufficient one.
But then this is only season 2 and there's many more Slayers to go.
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no subject
Date: 2015-07-10 12:41 pm (UTC)And yes! I've never been a big fan of Jenny's interactions with Giles, but I always felt like the minority in that. I get that the writers wanted to play it as opposites attract, but Jenny just seemed really condescending to me, almost like she was treating Giles like some kind of funny pet at times if that even makes sense. Like when she's implying that she ruined his first edition book by writing all over it, spilling coffee, and dog-earing all the pages, and then jokes that she's just trying to see if she can make him squirm. Personal issues spilling over for me there perhaps as I'm still bitter about the state of some books I lend out as a child lol, but it just didn't come across like she had a lot of respect for Giles? Yeah he's English and older than she is, but that doesn't mean that she gets to treat him like some kind of relic who is stuck in another century, nor joke about how "our ways" are strange to you. That would seem more appropriate for Buffy as his student who likes to gently rib him, not someone that the show wants to present as an equal for him to date
And my thoughts also more or less line up with yours when it comes to the Ted episode. Again, when there was widespread fandom discussion of it, I seemed to be in the minority there in that most people were firmly on Buffy's side and felt like she was purely defending herself against Ted who hit her first, there almost seemed to be a vibe of you were victim-blaming if you did disagree with how Buffy responded? Still I always felt like the episode emphasised Buffy feeling so terrible because she knew in her heart that she had taken it further than she should have. She didn't just hit him back once, she started beating him out of the room down the stairs. She had clearly completely lost control, even when her mother had come out and was witnessing her using her slayer powers on him. It was disappointing how the robot reveal just swept all that under the rug
no subject
Date: 2015-07-14 12:07 pm (UTC)*nods*
respect in relationships is of the good.
but the 'our ways' stuff is frequently about computers vs books, and it's like a window on a historical moment, because they often aren't having a discussion about the actual problems and advantages of each medium, they're just making funny about Giles calling it a 'dread machine'. Librarians can't really get away with that for long. So it's way 90s.
With Ted, Buffy was defending herself up to the point he stopped fighting back. After that needs discussion. But yeah, nuance, difficult.