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Oct. 5th, 2005 09:36 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethpanel on Superheroes and Mortality
Rucka is quick to correct the moderator, however. “It’s fantasy,” he says. “Resurrection is pretty much a staple of the fantasy genre, which superheroes are a part of.” Still, when asked his view on using rebirth as a plot device by a writer, he stands firm. “It’s a cop out. It’s weak writing. It makes the death itself meaningless.”
Buffy
Spike
the death isn't meaningless because it was a willing sacrifice
the characters don't go into it knowing they'll come back
They go into it knowing it will hurt, and they'll lose everything, never see the people they love again in this life, and they *do it anyway*.
Heroic deaths matter because the hero is willing to take the risk. They say that this person will get the job done no matter what the cost. Even if they lose everything, even if they lose their life, they will go down fighting, trying to do what is right.
*That* is what makes the death matter.
When they come back - yes, when - that says that we, the readers and writers making a world the way we think it should be - think that the reward for such heroism should not be death. They did the right thing, so they should have a chance to do more.
Or, alternately, sometimes people get brought back because of unfinished business. Is what makes ghost stories, usually. Some character has something in their life so huge that even death won't stop them from getting it sorted out.
Same message. No matter what happens, what they lose, what it will cost, a true hero stands up and gets it done, or dies trying.
Bringing them back isn't meaningless, it means we're on their side in this.
Leaving them dead, when we have the power to bring them back, that's pretty damn hurtful and shallow.
Of course if its overused - if death is such a revolving door no one belives in it any more - there is no risk, no sacrifice, no loss, so the power of it is lost. But in comics, no matter how many people come back how many times, there is death in that world. Any and every time could be the last one. The risk remains real. The sacrifice remains real.
But sometimes someone has to stay dead for a while so their friends, colleagues, partners, mentors, show that loss isn't going to stop them. So they can say that even a huge loss can become part of something worthwhile, that everyone can take the memory of a hero and keep going stronger because of it.
Other times, the loss wasn't so much heroic. Someone did something stupid and they have to pay. Whole different pattern there. If they don't face up to the part they did that was stupid, then undoing the loss is a copout. If they do, then it is a redemption. They earn it, they bring their friend back. Everyone wants to do that.
And then again, like on Buffy, there can be the 'how selfish is that' twist, and it gets interesting. Because you're trying to get someone to live their life for you, and really, never works out.
So bascially, I can't disagree more with that quote up top there. Resurrection is one of the tools of storytelling, a thing you can only do in a story, and it doesn't make the death meaningless. If done *badly* it can look really lame, but anything done badly is lame. The thing itself can be glorious.
Death is meaningless if its badly written. resurrection is meaningless if its badly written. overuse of either makes even well written stuff stop working because it gets weighed down with the badly written, and 'overuse' is very subjective, because it depends on what an individual is reading and how long their memory is.
If something is earned, if the characters work for it, suffer through it, come out of it changed, then the writers put the meaning in.
Incidentally - I think I remember a panel in one of the Titans comics (I can't remember which incarnation) where some newbie Titans are being shown around the dead dudes memorial by a veteran Titan and they're like "So, when did they come back?" and the veteran is all "You do know that dead people tend to stay dead, right?" but the newbies are just grinning like its a joke.
Anyone else remember that?
I want to narrow down the search a bit. Titans have been around a while.
Rucka is quick to correct the moderator, however. “It’s fantasy,” he says. “Resurrection is pretty much a staple of the fantasy genre, which superheroes are a part of.” Still, when asked his view on using rebirth as a plot device by a writer, he stands firm. “It’s a cop out. It’s weak writing. It makes the death itself meaningless.”
Buffy
Spike
the death isn't meaningless because it was a willing sacrifice
the characters don't go into it knowing they'll come back
They go into it knowing it will hurt, and they'll lose everything, never see the people they love again in this life, and they *do it anyway*.
Heroic deaths matter because the hero is willing to take the risk. They say that this person will get the job done no matter what the cost. Even if they lose everything, even if they lose their life, they will go down fighting, trying to do what is right.
*That* is what makes the death matter.
When they come back - yes, when - that says that we, the readers and writers making a world the way we think it should be - think that the reward for such heroism should not be death. They did the right thing, so they should have a chance to do more.
Or, alternately, sometimes people get brought back because of unfinished business. Is what makes ghost stories, usually. Some character has something in their life so huge that even death won't stop them from getting it sorted out.
Same message. No matter what happens, what they lose, what it will cost, a true hero stands up and gets it done, or dies trying.
Bringing them back isn't meaningless, it means we're on their side in this.
Leaving them dead, when we have the power to bring them back, that's pretty damn hurtful and shallow.
Of course if its overused - if death is such a revolving door no one belives in it any more - there is no risk, no sacrifice, no loss, so the power of it is lost. But in comics, no matter how many people come back how many times, there is death in that world. Any and every time could be the last one. The risk remains real. The sacrifice remains real.
But sometimes someone has to stay dead for a while so their friends, colleagues, partners, mentors, show that loss isn't going to stop them. So they can say that even a huge loss can become part of something worthwhile, that everyone can take the memory of a hero and keep going stronger because of it.
Other times, the loss wasn't so much heroic. Someone did something stupid and they have to pay. Whole different pattern there. If they don't face up to the part they did that was stupid, then undoing the loss is a copout. If they do, then it is a redemption. They earn it, they bring their friend back. Everyone wants to do that.
And then again, like on Buffy, there can be the 'how selfish is that' twist, and it gets interesting. Because you're trying to get someone to live their life for you, and really, never works out.
So bascially, I can't disagree more with that quote up top there. Resurrection is one of the tools of storytelling, a thing you can only do in a story, and it doesn't make the death meaningless. If done *badly* it can look really lame, but anything done badly is lame. The thing itself can be glorious.
Death is meaningless if its badly written. resurrection is meaningless if its badly written. overuse of either makes even well written stuff stop working because it gets weighed down with the badly written, and 'overuse' is very subjective, because it depends on what an individual is reading and how long their memory is.
If something is earned, if the characters work for it, suffer through it, come out of it changed, then the writers put the meaning in.
Incidentally - I think I remember a panel in one of the Titans comics (I can't remember which incarnation) where some newbie Titans are being shown around the dead dudes memorial by a veteran Titan and they're like "So, when did they come back?" and the veteran is all "You do know that dead people tend to stay dead, right?" but the newbies are just grinning like its a joke.
Anyone else remember that?
I want to narrow down the search a bit. Titans have been around a while.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-06 02:42 am (UTC)Anna