The Flash season 3 last two episodes
Sep. 23rd, 2017 08:03 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethSoooo... *big sigh*
This was weird because I like the solution they stated out loud, but I didn't like pretty much any of the steps they took to get there, and don't feel like their ending matched their statement.
Two episodes though, so, start with
Snart.
And heist movies.
It is good to see him, pretty much actual him, and they had fun playing heist. Some excellent quotable on 'throw away the plan'. A nice clear statement of what they are to each other on the meta level, foils, same background, could be equally ruthless. But as with Len talking to Sara at around that point in his personal timeline, he's making them take a good look at their choices before they pull the trigger, and leading them away from it. He might say he's got no problem killing people, but he certainly puts work in so other people won't do it. Protective. And telling Barry to go be a hero.
Barry inspires Snart to hero, in the Flash's telling of it, so now Snart inspires him right back.
"No strings" as a sign off made more sense Doylist than Watsonian. We know where he's going. And there's a narrow stretch of episodes he could be in, since he'd lost a hand, but the stated time and location didn't come up. Missing episode or Flashpoint induced difference? Room to play with. But somewhen he knows the Time Masters are chasing them, not that they manipulated from the start. So what's with the strings thing, from his point of view?
Lyla just up and giving the thing though... I liked her earlier actual logic where millions of people outweighed Iris. But what do I know.
The most heist movie bit of the episode was of course the last scene, but we don't know that until the next episode, unless spoilers. So I watched them both in a row, because I had spoilers and also the certain knowledge they wouldn't do that to Iris after all that all. So.
HR and Savitar and The End.
I felt like HR got a weird balanced of centered and short changed by how that ending was arranged. I mean, Ronnie never got a funeral, but we knew it was actually him at the dramatic moment.
Also, Watsonian, why the hell didn't they Flash him to medical facilities? Hospital can be helpful of stab wounds? I realise he only got dramatic moments to say sentences in because drama, but on their level, why not try to save him, rather than let him bleed out on the pavement?
I've been saying since LoT started that the way to change time without paradox is to approach it like a heist movie, where history as you know it is what you saw, but everything gets changed by the flashback. So, that was how they fixed the having seen the future problem, which is very drama. ... but their laws of time travel didn't necessitate it. Except for the Savitar remembering everything problem. So it was a nifty fix, but the convolutions that made it even vaguely necessary get discarded almost immediately. So why? Did they? Need that?
I mean Barry just decides to be a better person and lo, the problem is paradoxed out of existence. If Iris dying at any other moment wouldn't do the same thing then... I don't know how that made sense.
The bits that did make sense
HR they made a comedy version, a screw up who misspeaks, and then he screwed up too far and told where Iris was. And decided to fix it by dying.
Very brave, much sacrifice.
... I actually hate this kind of brave sacrifice, I'd rather there was always a way out, but as an example of the type, it did give HR the good stuff for his moment.
... I still don't get why Barry couldn't have just decided sooner not to go dark and like, not? Have done the things? I mean, figuring out who Savitar is should have been enough to derail his existence, but what was in the end was Barry deciding to let go of his anger and solve this like a hero instead, reaching out with hope. Which yaay, should work, did work...
... except the story didn't let it. I mean, if hope and heroism and reaching out with love is going to matter, the story can't end with your fiancee shooting you in the back. That... does not seem like a fitting together thing.
All this season I feel like I have to jiggle the parts to get the answers they seem to want.
I also keep getting stuck on the idea gods feel no pain. Like, sure, he could believe that, but one read of omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent is he's everywhere feeling all the pain and cares about it, he's just big enough to bear it. The idea that it's a hallmark of deity to not care any more is weird theology.
The idea that Barry would be told he's not a god and set out to become one to fix everything? That's fair enough.
So Savitar is the version of that that comes from anger and fear and pain and refuses to let the world actually happen.
And they fought and Barry rejected his dark side, yaays.
And Caitlin also rejected her dark side. Because rather than just injecting her, Cisco gave her a choice, and she chose team Flash. Yaays.
Her story doesn't leas there if it's actually genetic changes causing all the bad, but okay, she can choose after all, that's nice.
... the pieces don't meet in the middle.
Savitar not accepting when they reached out to him... I'm not saying it would have fixed anything to say threesome, but, he's feeling left out, so, you know, that's a solution. If he's still Barry the way Caitlin is still saveable then they did indeed need to figure out where he'd fit in their lives. But it seems a solvable problem.
But he's all angry and bitter and not really wanting his old life back. So okay.
He wants to be a god.
... Caitlin smashing Zolomon Black Flash so simply kind of makes the Legion of Doom and Cold losing to it kind of... awkward.
Caitlin being pleased because she smashed Hunter makes satisfying character sense.
Savitar wanting to be all through time and space sounds very much like what fandom wondered about Oculus Len, after the big kaboom. Would need more tech, apparently. Still seems like a good idea, and an explanation for how Snart can wuote himself right then...
But really, how is Savitar thinking he'll manage the thinking parts? That's a very odd way to want to be. Spread out across eternity. And why even want to? What's he planning to do? Bit of a mess. Which he's supposed to be, but still.
So the philosopher's stone was crystallised speed force, it went boom, and there's nothing else like it. But we don't know when it came into existence in the first place, if they want it back. It could have fallen in and out of the speed force as many times as they like. But it made a big kaboom instead, and then they ignored it for a bit, and then...
... the thing with the giant earthquakes and lightning storm and all, and with Barry stopping to have big emotional discussions before fixing it, is it strikes me as kind of unheroic to let the city get trashed just to say goodbye.
And, also, they hadn't built the speed trap yet? Everything is paradox? Messes.
But if everything is paradox is part of the problem, okay.
And then Barry has to go hang out in the speed force as his penance and redemption. Their use of religious language feels weird.
Everything about the speed force feels weird.
They wanted to tell a story about some of their central characters going dark side without them actually going dark side, and they wanted to explore ramifications of time travel, and this is what we got.
But I feel like it was too convoluted, the laws of time only make sense if laws of time selectively don't apply, and the actual problems never got addressed.
Savitar was hurt because he was treated like an unreal person because he only existed due to temporal manipulation.
Flashpoint as a universe and timeline was made and unmade as if it wasn't real and didn't matter, because it existed due to temporal manipulation.
The philosophers stone and Alchemy ported over memories from the Flashpoint timeline so some of the inhabitants could express their frustration at being treated the way they were.
Barry regretting the idea of throwaway people and understanding what he did wrong would be the appropriate ending. But I'm not sure he even did. He reached out to Savitar, decided to treat the problem with compassion and be a real hero who rises above his anger, and that's great... but muddied by how that worked out.
And I'm still not 100% sure the story has the same idea I do about where the problem was.
Also I thought right up until the last moment that the fight that created Savitar was the fight to save Iris. Making it a whole different fight does make sense once I go over it in my head again, but I am a smart person paying attention while watching episodes close together after plenty of spoilers, I feel if I am confused it was really confusing.
The conclusion of the fight where Iris was all 'you were trying to save me i saved you' would be a good one, except, weren't they trying to fix things with compassion?
If the hero pays lip service to compassion but the story never lets it work, that's not a compassionate story.
But then it worked with Caitlin.
They got Barry where they wanted him to be both with words and actions, rejecting anger and purely violent solutions, reaching out with hope.
And they decided he had to pay penance for what he did at the start of the season.
But I just... I did not like the ride, I did not like who they killed off and how, I didn't even like Harry's final appearances of the year because he was there to use emotional leverage from looking like HR. Which sort of interesting with the two Barry situation, but still. Too much stuff and things, don't know what I thought of bits of it, didn't like how convoluted it got to get there.
Very busy last episodes, some clever bits but some bits I found confusing all year.
I'm going to find bits to like but it takes more work than I'd like.
I hope they simplify next year and have the heroes regularly do heroics.
This was weird because I like the solution they stated out loud, but I didn't like pretty much any of the steps they took to get there, and don't feel like their ending matched their statement.
Two episodes though, so, start with
Snart.
And heist movies.
It is good to see him, pretty much actual him, and they had fun playing heist. Some excellent quotable on 'throw away the plan'. A nice clear statement of what they are to each other on the meta level, foils, same background, could be equally ruthless. But as with Len talking to Sara at around that point in his personal timeline, he's making them take a good look at their choices before they pull the trigger, and leading them away from it. He might say he's got no problem killing people, but he certainly puts work in so other people won't do it. Protective. And telling Barry to go be a hero.
Barry inspires Snart to hero, in the Flash's telling of it, so now Snart inspires him right back.
"No strings" as a sign off made more sense Doylist than Watsonian. We know where he's going. And there's a narrow stretch of episodes he could be in, since he'd lost a hand, but the stated time and location didn't come up. Missing episode or Flashpoint induced difference? Room to play with. But somewhen he knows the Time Masters are chasing them, not that they manipulated from the start. So what's with the strings thing, from his point of view?
Lyla just up and giving the thing though... I liked her earlier actual logic where millions of people outweighed Iris. But what do I know.
The most heist movie bit of the episode was of course the last scene, but we don't know that until the next episode, unless spoilers. So I watched them both in a row, because I had spoilers and also the certain knowledge they wouldn't do that to Iris after all that all. So.
HR and Savitar and The End.
I felt like HR got a weird balanced of centered and short changed by how that ending was arranged. I mean, Ronnie never got a funeral, but we knew it was actually him at the dramatic moment.
Also, Watsonian, why the hell didn't they Flash him to medical facilities? Hospital can be helpful of stab wounds? I realise he only got dramatic moments to say sentences in because drama, but on their level, why not try to save him, rather than let him bleed out on the pavement?
I've been saying since LoT started that the way to change time without paradox is to approach it like a heist movie, where history as you know it is what you saw, but everything gets changed by the flashback. So, that was how they fixed the having seen the future problem, which is very drama. ... but their laws of time travel didn't necessitate it. Except for the Savitar remembering everything problem. So it was a nifty fix, but the convolutions that made it even vaguely necessary get discarded almost immediately. So why? Did they? Need that?
I mean Barry just decides to be a better person and lo, the problem is paradoxed out of existence. If Iris dying at any other moment wouldn't do the same thing then... I don't know how that made sense.
The bits that did make sense
HR they made a comedy version, a screw up who misspeaks, and then he screwed up too far and told where Iris was. And decided to fix it by dying.
Very brave, much sacrifice.
... I actually hate this kind of brave sacrifice, I'd rather there was always a way out, but as an example of the type, it did give HR the good stuff for his moment.
... I still don't get why Barry couldn't have just decided sooner not to go dark and like, not? Have done the things? I mean, figuring out who Savitar is should have been enough to derail his existence, but what was in the end was Barry deciding to let go of his anger and solve this like a hero instead, reaching out with hope. Which yaay, should work, did work...
... except the story didn't let it. I mean, if hope and heroism and reaching out with love is going to matter, the story can't end with your fiancee shooting you in the back. That... does not seem like a fitting together thing.
All this season I feel like I have to jiggle the parts to get the answers they seem to want.
I also keep getting stuck on the idea gods feel no pain. Like, sure, he could believe that, but one read of omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent is he's everywhere feeling all the pain and cares about it, he's just big enough to bear it. The idea that it's a hallmark of deity to not care any more is weird theology.
The idea that Barry would be told he's not a god and set out to become one to fix everything? That's fair enough.
So Savitar is the version of that that comes from anger and fear and pain and refuses to let the world actually happen.
And they fought and Barry rejected his dark side, yaays.
And Caitlin also rejected her dark side. Because rather than just injecting her, Cisco gave her a choice, and she chose team Flash. Yaays.
Her story doesn't leas there if it's actually genetic changes causing all the bad, but okay, she can choose after all, that's nice.
... the pieces don't meet in the middle.
Savitar not accepting when they reached out to him... I'm not saying it would have fixed anything to say threesome, but, he's feeling left out, so, you know, that's a solution. If he's still Barry the way Caitlin is still saveable then they did indeed need to figure out where he'd fit in their lives. But it seems a solvable problem.
But he's all angry and bitter and not really wanting his old life back. So okay.
He wants to be a god.
... Caitlin smashing Zolomon Black Flash so simply kind of makes the Legion of Doom and Cold losing to it kind of... awkward.
Caitlin being pleased because she smashed Hunter makes satisfying character sense.
Savitar wanting to be all through time and space sounds very much like what fandom wondered about Oculus Len, after the big kaboom. Would need more tech, apparently. Still seems like a good idea, and an explanation for how Snart can wuote himself right then...
But really, how is Savitar thinking he'll manage the thinking parts? That's a very odd way to want to be. Spread out across eternity. And why even want to? What's he planning to do? Bit of a mess. Which he's supposed to be, but still.
So the philosopher's stone was crystallised speed force, it went boom, and there's nothing else like it. But we don't know when it came into existence in the first place, if they want it back. It could have fallen in and out of the speed force as many times as they like. But it made a big kaboom instead, and then they ignored it for a bit, and then...
... the thing with the giant earthquakes and lightning storm and all, and with Barry stopping to have big emotional discussions before fixing it, is it strikes me as kind of unheroic to let the city get trashed just to say goodbye.
And, also, they hadn't built the speed trap yet? Everything is paradox? Messes.
But if everything is paradox is part of the problem, okay.
And then Barry has to go hang out in the speed force as his penance and redemption. Their use of religious language feels weird.
Everything about the speed force feels weird.
They wanted to tell a story about some of their central characters going dark side without them actually going dark side, and they wanted to explore ramifications of time travel, and this is what we got.
But I feel like it was too convoluted, the laws of time only make sense if laws of time selectively don't apply, and the actual problems never got addressed.
Savitar was hurt because he was treated like an unreal person because he only existed due to temporal manipulation.
Flashpoint as a universe and timeline was made and unmade as if it wasn't real and didn't matter, because it existed due to temporal manipulation.
The philosophers stone and Alchemy ported over memories from the Flashpoint timeline so some of the inhabitants could express their frustration at being treated the way they were.
Barry regretting the idea of throwaway people and understanding what he did wrong would be the appropriate ending. But I'm not sure he even did. He reached out to Savitar, decided to treat the problem with compassion and be a real hero who rises above his anger, and that's great... but muddied by how that worked out.
And I'm still not 100% sure the story has the same idea I do about where the problem was.
Also I thought right up until the last moment that the fight that created Savitar was the fight to save Iris. Making it a whole different fight does make sense once I go over it in my head again, but I am a smart person paying attention while watching episodes close together after plenty of spoilers, I feel if I am confused it was really confusing.
The conclusion of the fight where Iris was all 'you were trying to save me i saved you' would be a good one, except, weren't they trying to fix things with compassion?
If the hero pays lip service to compassion but the story never lets it work, that's not a compassionate story.
But then it worked with Caitlin.
They got Barry where they wanted him to be both with words and actions, rejecting anger and purely violent solutions, reaching out with hope.
And they decided he had to pay penance for what he did at the start of the season.
But I just... I did not like the ride, I did not like who they killed off and how, I didn't even like Harry's final appearances of the year because he was there to use emotional leverage from looking like HR. Which sort of interesting with the two Barry situation, but still. Too much stuff and things, don't know what I thought of bits of it, didn't like how convoluted it got to get there.
Very busy last episodes, some clever bits but some bits I found confusing all year.
I'm going to find bits to like but it takes more work than I'd like.
I hope they simplify next year and have the heroes regularly do heroics.