Diamonds and the dead
Apr. 7th, 2019 06:49 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethIf Mr Freeze was in Pathfinder then his quest to acquire diamonds would make perfect sense as a way to save his wife.
A diamond in Pathfinder is a gem worth 5,000 gp, and a material component required for Raise Dead or Resurrection. Raise Dead needs 5,000 gp worth of diamond, Resurrection 10,000 gp , True Resurrection 25,000 gp. It is only possible to Raise Dead within a few days of the death, depending on caster lever, so you either bring back the dead fast, or need a lot more diamonds to do it. But if you do it the cheap way then restoring them to full abilities is going to cost you in Restoration spells, which also require diamonds. Only diamond dust though, and only 1,000 gp per negative level, so a Raise Dead and a couple of Restorations still work out cheaper than the Resurrection options.
So. Say you have a dead person. You then have a logical urgent need to do a diamond heist.
Only if diamonds are not easily available round your way. PC wealth per level is assumed to be pretty ridiculous. If you only want the gold piece equivalent, it looks like a party can probably afford it at a fairly low level.
(They could afford so many goats instead. So many.)
But if you specifically need diamonds, that's not so simples. You might get entire hoards of topaz and amethyst and even emeralds, but they'd be no use to the purpose, if only diamond will do.
It would skew the social perception of diamond thieves, specifically, if everyone knew that stealing a really fancy diamond meant you were desperate to raise the dead.
... yeah I'm thinking of Snart now. That diamond was huge and royal, imagine if it was some royal family's life insurance policy, and Snart stole it for... what? A rainy day? I mean it would be for his sister if anyone, but she was alive at that point. Having it stashed somewhere would give him options for later.
His father taking him to steal diamonds would also signify somewhat differently.
And if they just wanted them for their financial worth, of a sudden that makes them the lowest of the low. That's stealing medicine. Nasty.
It makes you wonder about the penalty for murder though. I mean people want to dissuade their citizens from doing a murder in the first place, but if you could undo it for a fine, you end up with a two tiered set of rules with wealth behind some.
There's cheaper options if Reincarnation will do, but Reincarnation says you get to keep 'most' of your memories, and there's good odds on coming back a different species, so you can see how a lot of people would decide it would not, in fact, do.
If there's a one week limit on Reincarnation and somewhere between 9 days and 20 for Raise Dead, you've got incentive to do things fast, for a little while there. Which could be fun, hurry makes for errors.
But I'm also imagining a Weekend at Bernie's situation where everything can be fixed if they get enough diamonds before the 9 days are up. Just hide the accidental or not so accidental death, raid their funds somehow, get them back, and all can be forgiven.
... other ways to hide one's culpability include illusion and necromancy. Healing spells are a lot more expensive, but more thorough...
There isn't really a practical time limit on how long before you can undo a murder, if you can save enough for True Resurrection. Ten years per caster level on a 9th level cleric spell means you've got at least 170 years, as long as you can find someone who can do it at all. ... actually come to think that is a limit less than an individual lifetime for some species in Pathfinder. Elves and dwarves and probably more can live long enough they're not going to be able to Ressurect that one dude they knew back when. Even a half elf might manage to, if they're particularly hale. I guess I was just thinking of humans.
So there'd be a desperate scramble to get enough together to Raise someone in the first few days, and then a sort of grim settling in to dedicate yourself to gathering up a Resurrection. And maybe other priorities would bump that particular dead dude down the queue but you'd have it at the back of your mind, that at any point you could.
I haven't really grasped what Pathfinder expects about wealth though, or how permanent death is expected to be. If it's a quick trip to the nearest temple, or a spell one of the party has probably learnt, that's a different world. I mean you can reasonably expect to make it to 9th level in a game, the Adventure Paths can go through level 20. But compare that to fantasy stories and it's so massively more powerful. I mean having casually raising the dead be a feat you manage like half way through an adventure is... a lot.
Legends of Tomorrow gets an entire season arc out of wanting to bring a dead loved one back repeatedly. In Pathfinder, they'd have to be pretty cheap to not be able to do it like *snaps fingers*.
That's just a very different approach to storytelling.
... I think I prefer having to arrange epic heists to get the diamonds for a dead loved one before the deadline. Lots of motivation.
So I was thinking about what Pathfinder!Eobard could to, after killing Nora Allen. Like, not what he would do, and not involving time travel, so not very Eo, obviously. But if he could kill someone, immediately regret it, and run to a temple to undo it, that's a very different life.
Though if the temple just let him there's not a whole lot of story in it...
Also it would be way harder to falsely convict Henry Allen in a world where Zone of Truth is a thing.
I think I want to find a group and go play rpgs again. I'm getting frustrated with the kind of stories that don't let me do anything to them. Nobody listens, always the same, very boring.
Give me Pathfinder and a route to becoming a deity, and then I can really get things done...
A diamond in Pathfinder is a gem worth 5,000 gp, and a material component required for Raise Dead or Resurrection. Raise Dead needs 5,000 gp worth of diamond, Resurrection 10,000 gp , True Resurrection 25,000 gp. It is only possible to Raise Dead within a few days of the death, depending on caster lever, so you either bring back the dead fast, or need a lot more diamonds to do it. But if you do it the cheap way then restoring them to full abilities is going to cost you in Restoration spells, which also require diamonds. Only diamond dust though, and only 1,000 gp per negative level, so a Raise Dead and a couple of Restorations still work out cheaper than the Resurrection options.
So. Say you have a dead person. You then have a logical urgent need to do a diamond heist.
Only if diamonds are not easily available round your way. PC wealth per level is assumed to be pretty ridiculous. If you only want the gold piece equivalent, it looks like a party can probably afford it at a fairly low level.
(They could afford so many goats instead. So many.)
But if you specifically need diamonds, that's not so simples. You might get entire hoards of topaz and amethyst and even emeralds, but they'd be no use to the purpose, if only diamond will do.
It would skew the social perception of diamond thieves, specifically, if everyone knew that stealing a really fancy diamond meant you were desperate to raise the dead.
... yeah I'm thinking of Snart now. That diamond was huge and royal, imagine if it was some royal family's life insurance policy, and Snart stole it for... what? A rainy day? I mean it would be for his sister if anyone, but she was alive at that point. Having it stashed somewhere would give him options for later.
His father taking him to steal diamonds would also signify somewhat differently.
And if they just wanted them for their financial worth, of a sudden that makes them the lowest of the low. That's stealing medicine. Nasty.
It makes you wonder about the penalty for murder though. I mean people want to dissuade their citizens from doing a murder in the first place, but if you could undo it for a fine, you end up with a two tiered set of rules with wealth behind some.
There's cheaper options if Reincarnation will do, but Reincarnation says you get to keep 'most' of your memories, and there's good odds on coming back a different species, so you can see how a lot of people would decide it would not, in fact, do.
If there's a one week limit on Reincarnation and somewhere between 9 days and 20 for Raise Dead, you've got incentive to do things fast, for a little while there. Which could be fun, hurry makes for errors.
But I'm also imagining a Weekend at Bernie's situation where everything can be fixed if they get enough diamonds before the 9 days are up. Just hide the accidental or not so accidental death, raid their funds somehow, get them back, and all can be forgiven.
... other ways to hide one's culpability include illusion and necromancy. Healing spells are a lot more expensive, but more thorough...
There isn't really a practical time limit on how long before you can undo a murder, if you can save enough for True Resurrection. Ten years per caster level on a 9th level cleric spell means you've got at least 170 years, as long as you can find someone who can do it at all. ... actually come to think that is a limit less than an individual lifetime for some species in Pathfinder. Elves and dwarves and probably more can live long enough they're not going to be able to Ressurect that one dude they knew back when. Even a half elf might manage to, if they're particularly hale. I guess I was just thinking of humans.
So there'd be a desperate scramble to get enough together to Raise someone in the first few days, and then a sort of grim settling in to dedicate yourself to gathering up a Resurrection. And maybe other priorities would bump that particular dead dude down the queue but you'd have it at the back of your mind, that at any point you could.
I haven't really grasped what Pathfinder expects about wealth though, or how permanent death is expected to be. If it's a quick trip to the nearest temple, or a spell one of the party has probably learnt, that's a different world. I mean you can reasonably expect to make it to 9th level in a game, the Adventure Paths can go through level 20. But compare that to fantasy stories and it's so massively more powerful. I mean having casually raising the dead be a feat you manage like half way through an adventure is... a lot.
Legends of Tomorrow gets an entire season arc out of wanting to bring a dead loved one back repeatedly. In Pathfinder, they'd have to be pretty cheap to not be able to do it like *snaps fingers*.
That's just a very different approach to storytelling.
... I think I prefer having to arrange epic heists to get the diamonds for a dead loved one before the deadline. Lots of motivation.
So I was thinking about what Pathfinder!Eobard could to, after killing Nora Allen. Like, not what he would do, and not involving time travel, so not very Eo, obviously. But if he could kill someone, immediately regret it, and run to a temple to undo it, that's a very different life.
Though if the temple just let him there's not a whole lot of story in it...
Also it would be way harder to falsely convict Henry Allen in a world where Zone of Truth is a thing.
I think I want to find a group and go play rpgs again. I'm getting frustrated with the kind of stories that don't let me do anything to them. Nobody listens, always the same, very boring.
Give me Pathfinder and a route to becoming a deity, and then I can really get things done...