but what am I looking for
Apr. 3rd, 2023 07:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethI have been stuck reading Jack/Ianto, mosly post CoE fixit fic, lately.
(stuck as in I did not decide to focus on this particular variety but I cannot steer my attention for toffee)
It's good because there's a Lot of over ten thousand words not an out of universe crossover finished fic to read
but
a lot of it had the same ideas.
And they're great ideas! Yes, obviously Ianto should travel to the 51st century and meet both younger and older Jack, acting like a sort of reverse three ghosts, that's an excellent idea. And starting at the most bookmarked fics, it is also an idea I have read repeatedly already. I can also see the appeal of making Ianto immortal, by any means necessary, and making him a Time Lord, possibly with a stopwatch for a fob watch, works grand too.
But I am at that point in reading fic where I'm all
yes, like this!
... but not this.
I can't figure out exactly what differences I want either.
I mean the fic where Jack raises Ianto's baby in the far future is an excellent one, but, do I want to read another one?
I know I *don't* like the ones where the two of them leave Earth together after CoE. God knows they need a holiday, but it just doesn't feel plausible to me, knowing how they choose duty over and over. And of course having seen them choose duty, and on one memorable occasion vote screw it, we want them to get their freedom and their happily ever afters... but I just feel strongly that they'd manage a holiday for... maybe whole numbers of weeks, if it were a busmans holiday like the Doctor always manages. And after that they'd need to know Cardiff was okay roughly like you'd need to know if you left the cooker on.
I love the ones where everything gets declassified and everything changes.
It's perpetually frustrating that, in order to stay relatable and one step around the corner for new and young viewers, DW is just not going to do that.
Everthing resets instead.
I get tired of the tragic endings. Yes, the story can lead us through satisfyingly cathartic dark places, but, anyone can set it up and then leave it in the bad bit. Stories should figure it out and fix it too.
I've seen recent pictures of GDL and quite a large part of what I want is for Ianto to also have the chance to keep up. Live as long and look as good. It feels important more people get a turn at that.
Happily ever after isnt a childish ending. Leaving it in the dark seems teenage. Like you get scared and hide in a dark corner, but the good bit is figuring how to get out.
And it isn't really immortality angst when you get upset about having to watch everyone die
if they die like, every year. Every couple of years, tops.
That's just regular horrible trauma.
... give Jack the highly specific trauma he deserves, after spending the rest of the century watching Ianto grow old with him!
Ianto is such a classic character though. He's got that whole well organised butler sinks into the background thing going on, and then suddenly everyone has to *see* him and notice there's been wells of desperate passion driving him all along. And then he goes back to quiet competence? As you do? And getting underestimated, over and over. And that time he had to shoot Owen because both of them were absolutely certain they were doing their duty, that is good stuff. And just in general, the way Ianto will make a straight line plan starting where he is and going where he needs to go, and just do it, and you think he is therefor Fine, but he is having all the feelings, loudly, actually, and just getting everything done Anyway.
That's a kind of guy who could age in such interesting ways. Because maybe he continues to find someone to Follow, and Serve, and Look After. And they continue to wonder what they did to earn that. Or maybe he sort of grows into himself, and becomes the kind of highly competent leader who also knows how to get his people whatever they need. He could keep on trying to keep his feelings on the inside, or he could have his feelings out loud where actual other people can see them on a more frequent basis. And if he does, either way, it could be about growing out of insecurity into confidence, or he could keep that flaw of thinking he has to hide his needs in order to get a sliver of what is needed. Plenty of good story!
I do kind of want to see him as a parent, but not so much in the ways kidfic mostly covers, where there is A Cute Accessory that lets us see how much they Care. More like... for those of us who are not Immortal and unaging, there comes a day where someone else has to look after us, because they are more capable than we are today. Or than we will be anymore.
I think Ianto would have some Adjustments to make, to be the recipient of care.
And then his kids grow up a bit and want to work, want to *serve*, and how is he going to adjust to that? Send them elsewhere or set them up in Torchwood? Keep them where he can keep an eye on them, but everyone will know that's what he's doing?
(Not to mention the teenage years where the kids go all Sarah Jane Adventures but Ianto is very aware that the stakes are always Torchwood and his reality has no plot armour.)
They wouldnt have to be his biological kids for a lot of this to apply, obvs. Just, there keep being people who are Younger. Now what?
So the interesting bits about getting older when your partner doesn't, those would include watching him keep doing the same things the same ways, and you can't anymore... but maybe your kids can. And that is going to feel a whole heap of ways.
And Ianto admires James Bond so being a field agent seems like the height of glamor, but what if you hit the height of skill, and yet the rest of you doesn't keep up?
Kind of like Owen and Andy are doing in the audios, where Owen just can't risk getting any more broken, so then Andy gets hurt, and nobody is happy about that.
But instead like, an older Ianto has Jack as a model, someone to look up to and admire, and that includes a tendency to be the one throwing himself into danger. Yvonne didnt flinch from throwing other people in harm's way, and I feel Not Being Yvonne is going to be a legit priority in Torchwood future. But at some point you just arent the best option for the mission. It's time to send someone else.
I want to see someone adjust to those sort of long term changes.
TV isn't the format for that, unless you set up parallel stories, or giant flashbacks.
Fic can have it covered though.
Anyways, food delivery arriving, these are just some thoughts.
(stuck as in I did not decide to focus on this particular variety but I cannot steer my attention for toffee)
It's good because there's a Lot of over ten thousand words not an out of universe crossover finished fic to read
but
a lot of it had the same ideas.
And they're great ideas! Yes, obviously Ianto should travel to the 51st century and meet both younger and older Jack, acting like a sort of reverse three ghosts, that's an excellent idea. And starting at the most bookmarked fics, it is also an idea I have read repeatedly already. I can also see the appeal of making Ianto immortal, by any means necessary, and making him a Time Lord, possibly with a stopwatch for a fob watch, works grand too.
But I am at that point in reading fic where I'm all
yes, like this!
... but not this.
I can't figure out exactly what differences I want either.
I mean the fic where Jack raises Ianto's baby in the far future is an excellent one, but, do I want to read another one?
I know I *don't* like the ones where the two of them leave Earth together after CoE. God knows they need a holiday, but it just doesn't feel plausible to me, knowing how they choose duty over and over. And of course having seen them choose duty, and on one memorable occasion vote screw it, we want them to get their freedom and their happily ever afters... but I just feel strongly that they'd manage a holiday for... maybe whole numbers of weeks, if it were a busmans holiday like the Doctor always manages. And after that they'd need to know Cardiff was okay roughly like you'd need to know if you left the cooker on.
I love the ones where everything gets declassified and everything changes.
It's perpetually frustrating that, in order to stay relatable and one step around the corner for new and young viewers, DW is just not going to do that.
Everthing resets instead.
I get tired of the tragic endings. Yes, the story can lead us through satisfyingly cathartic dark places, but, anyone can set it up and then leave it in the bad bit. Stories should figure it out and fix it too.
I've seen recent pictures of GDL and quite a large part of what I want is for Ianto to also have the chance to keep up. Live as long and look as good. It feels important more people get a turn at that.
Happily ever after isnt a childish ending. Leaving it in the dark seems teenage. Like you get scared and hide in a dark corner, but the good bit is figuring how to get out.
And it isn't really immortality angst when you get upset about having to watch everyone die
if they die like, every year. Every couple of years, tops.
That's just regular horrible trauma.
... give Jack the highly specific trauma he deserves, after spending the rest of the century watching Ianto grow old with him!
Ianto is such a classic character though. He's got that whole well organised butler sinks into the background thing going on, and then suddenly everyone has to *see* him and notice there's been wells of desperate passion driving him all along. And then he goes back to quiet competence? As you do? And getting underestimated, over and over. And that time he had to shoot Owen because both of them were absolutely certain they were doing their duty, that is good stuff. And just in general, the way Ianto will make a straight line plan starting where he is and going where he needs to go, and just do it, and you think he is therefor Fine, but he is having all the feelings, loudly, actually, and just getting everything done Anyway.
That's a kind of guy who could age in such interesting ways. Because maybe he continues to find someone to Follow, and Serve, and Look After. And they continue to wonder what they did to earn that. Or maybe he sort of grows into himself, and becomes the kind of highly competent leader who also knows how to get his people whatever they need. He could keep on trying to keep his feelings on the inside, or he could have his feelings out loud where actual other people can see them on a more frequent basis. And if he does, either way, it could be about growing out of insecurity into confidence, or he could keep that flaw of thinking he has to hide his needs in order to get a sliver of what is needed. Plenty of good story!
I do kind of want to see him as a parent, but not so much in the ways kidfic mostly covers, where there is A Cute Accessory that lets us see how much they Care. More like... for those of us who are not Immortal and unaging, there comes a day where someone else has to look after us, because they are more capable than we are today. Or than we will be anymore.
I think Ianto would have some Adjustments to make, to be the recipient of care.
And then his kids grow up a bit and want to work, want to *serve*, and how is he going to adjust to that? Send them elsewhere or set them up in Torchwood? Keep them where he can keep an eye on them, but everyone will know that's what he's doing?
(Not to mention the teenage years where the kids go all Sarah Jane Adventures but Ianto is very aware that the stakes are always Torchwood and his reality has no plot armour.)
They wouldnt have to be his biological kids for a lot of this to apply, obvs. Just, there keep being people who are Younger. Now what?
So the interesting bits about getting older when your partner doesn't, those would include watching him keep doing the same things the same ways, and you can't anymore... but maybe your kids can. And that is going to feel a whole heap of ways.
And Ianto admires James Bond so being a field agent seems like the height of glamor, but what if you hit the height of skill, and yet the rest of you doesn't keep up?
Kind of like Owen and Andy are doing in the audios, where Owen just can't risk getting any more broken, so then Andy gets hurt, and nobody is happy about that.
But instead like, an older Ianto has Jack as a model, someone to look up to and admire, and that includes a tendency to be the one throwing himself into danger. Yvonne didnt flinch from throwing other people in harm's way, and I feel Not Being Yvonne is going to be a legit priority in Torchwood future. But at some point you just arent the best option for the mission. It's time to send someone else.
I want to see someone adjust to those sort of long term changes.
TV isn't the format for that, unless you set up parallel stories, or giant flashbacks.
Fic can have it covered though.
Anyways, food delivery arriving, these are just some thoughts.