DW up through Zygons
Aug. 10th, 2025 08:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethI have rewatched Clara's last season up to the Zygon pair.
The episode where immortal Me stops caring and starts again was only sort of interesting for what the Doctor is saying about himself. And for the specific version of immortality where Me can only remember a limited selection of their own life. Everything they said about how they can master skills seems to contradict that though. But the idea of having like one rolling lifetime only... you'd change so much. It's interesting.
Also the Doctor said he travelled with an immortal, Captain Jack Harkness.
Which we didn't see, unless the Doctor is being very economical with that one trip, or eliding how immortal Jack was at the time.
Implying that they couldn't travel together because they need the mayfly lives... I can only see as the Doctor lying to himself really hard that time.
Or themselves. I feel that the episodes didn't do grand with gendered pronouns, and the Doctor's get clearer as complicated later on.
Sam Swift as an immortal could be interesting. Immortal comedian would have some material to work with. Seems likely he'd hit the limits though.
Good enough story but didn't make me chew over it in ways distinct from my general thinking about Jack and Immortals.
The Zygon stories though... they made me very angry this time. Like sure, you can live here, just get split up from everyone like you, and become like us. Angry angry angry. Will they play the violin after? Well I don't know for sure but I feel Zygons probably didn't invent identical musical instruments, so how about asking what instruments they would play? Got their own technology, yes, but did anyone in that story suspect they have their own culture? And it gave them new biological limitations so copying one person and staying that way wasn't a problem, which... is a choice.
It made me rethink the 'perfect treaty' set up too. I mean equalised good intentions are very nice, but nobody in that room was a treaty lawyer, unless the Doctor is specifically qualified.
And there's other stuff where the interaction between law and shapeshifting would have to be examined carefully, in ways that remind me of AI issues now, and trust and safety stuff.
And how old were those Zygons? How does it even work? They can shapeshift to look like any age, so you can't judge by looking. Were they all new? The Doctor called them tantruming children. Is that developmentally right???
Maybe possibly a bit of looking after them would be appropriate actually. Who knows. Not this story.
Also the big speech about war and the two buttons was a good, good, speech.
But.
It was one old white man lecturing a room full of women, who didn't get to talk back. *Clara* didn't have an opinion. Osgood didn't say anything. Kate who negotiated the treaty... well, apparently doesn't remember that. Doesn't remember the last fifteen times.
Mind wipe is abhorrent, is a way of never having to listen to someone judging you.
So I am angry today!
Even if the message also very much included that it was awful to kill people just for being different.
There wasn't room in the story for wanting to be different and still good.
Angry.
That said, very strong writing, many good aspects.
But it was strongest about the Doctor and his feelings, not about the many complicated parts of the situation.
The episode where immortal Me stops caring and starts again was only sort of interesting for what the Doctor is saying about himself. And for the specific version of immortality where Me can only remember a limited selection of their own life. Everything they said about how they can master skills seems to contradict that though. But the idea of having like one rolling lifetime only... you'd change so much. It's interesting.
Also the Doctor said he travelled with an immortal, Captain Jack Harkness.
Which we didn't see, unless the Doctor is being very economical with that one trip, or eliding how immortal Jack was at the time.
Implying that they couldn't travel together because they need the mayfly lives... I can only see as the Doctor lying to himself really hard that time.
Or themselves. I feel that the episodes didn't do grand with gendered pronouns, and the Doctor's get clearer as complicated later on.
Sam Swift as an immortal could be interesting. Immortal comedian would have some material to work with. Seems likely he'd hit the limits though.
Good enough story but didn't make me chew over it in ways distinct from my general thinking about Jack and Immortals.
The Zygon stories though... they made me very angry this time. Like sure, you can live here, just get split up from everyone like you, and become like us. Angry angry angry. Will they play the violin after? Well I don't know for sure but I feel Zygons probably didn't invent identical musical instruments, so how about asking what instruments they would play? Got their own technology, yes, but did anyone in that story suspect they have their own culture? And it gave them new biological limitations so copying one person and staying that way wasn't a problem, which... is a choice.
It made me rethink the 'perfect treaty' set up too. I mean equalised good intentions are very nice, but nobody in that room was a treaty lawyer, unless the Doctor is specifically qualified.
And there's other stuff where the interaction between law and shapeshifting would have to be examined carefully, in ways that remind me of AI issues now, and trust and safety stuff.
And how old were those Zygons? How does it even work? They can shapeshift to look like any age, so you can't judge by looking. Were they all new? The Doctor called them tantruming children. Is that developmentally right???
Maybe possibly a bit of looking after them would be appropriate actually. Who knows. Not this story.
Also the big speech about war and the two buttons was a good, good, speech.
But.
It was one old white man lecturing a room full of women, who didn't get to talk back. *Clara* didn't have an opinion. Osgood didn't say anything. Kate who negotiated the treaty... well, apparently doesn't remember that. Doesn't remember the last fifteen times.
Mind wipe is abhorrent, is a way of never having to listen to someone judging you.
So I am angry today!
Even if the message also very much included that it was awful to kill people just for being different.
There wasn't room in the story for wanting to be different and still good.
Angry.
That said, very strong writing, many good aspects.
But it was strongest about the Doctor and his feelings, not about the many complicated parts of the situation.
no subject
Date: 2025-08-10 10:50 pm (UTC)