Xander, and sociology of education

[beccaelizabeth]

I just read a thing where someone went on about how Xander could have been better if he'd just put some effort into it, saying he mostly failed at school because he was a slacker.

I have this terrible urge to throw a sociology essay at them, that whole one I just did on differential achievement in education that focused on class differences. Well, not actually this one because it is structured around changes in British education and so not quite on topic for Xanders, but one like it, with lots of theories in.

He graduated high school. He worked hard for his D grades. Said so, out loud and everything, so it is canon. And he studied extra with Willow quite a bit. Lots of effort there.

For the essay there was a ton of stuff about how tests are not life, tests mostly see if you can jump through test hoops. And middle class kids do better due to tests being culturally biased. And kids labeled as less smart in kindergarten have that label follow them around and do less well, but if teachers are told new label, kids do better, even label is given randomly. And how labels at that age aren't about academic ability at all, they're about factors like how they dress and how noisy they are that in fact end up class based because the 'ideal pupil' image most teachers have is based on middle class norms. And... well, essay list of theories, lots of stuff. If working class kids consistently dont do as well in school, does the fact that this one particular working class kid not do well suggest that we should look for causes in personal (ie stupid and/or slacker) or sociological (big list o theories) reasons?

Except actually he is a character. I do know that. But then the argument shouldn't be 'Xander is a slacker' it should be 'Joss Whedon wanted to portray Xander as something, what was it?'
And I'm fairly sure 'slacker' was not it.

Issue could be, portrayals of working class teenage males on television. Issue could be, how feminist is the text when it elevates the women by having males get knocked on the head a lot and be underachievers.

Actually, interesting issue - am I thinking of Xander as working class because he ended up a builder, or because of class indicators while he was at high school, or because of some currently eluding me bit of canon about the employment of his parental units?
Could go investigate.
(Okay, rewatch a lot of episodes.)(but with academic thoughts and a notepad)


But whichever set of reasons you look at, in or out of 'verse, I don't think its fair to call Xander a slacker because his high school grades weren't Willow like.



... I get offended for reasons learned in class and a whole bunch of sociology book stuff pours out. Woah.

Also, I am now planning to read bits of the textbook that won't be in the essay, just for fun. And I spent the last hour and a half reading a media studies textbook.

Check that out. I got all academic through the course of the year.



Of course now I feel the vague anxiety I'm remembering it all wrong, and the need to go look it up and cite sources...

shall post with usual 'could phrase it better' apology

Comments

[beccaelizabeth]

I'm also finding I take it kind of personal. I technically didn't fail A levels. Well, Maths, yes, rather completely, due to being ill for the exam. And for English I never got as far as sitting exams, because they asked me to pick one to stop doing. But for Biology and Chemistry I just didn't get expected grades, or enought to get me into university. Am I a slacker? I don't think so. I think I had a tiny yet crucial job, and a dysfunctional family, and a tendency to be kept awake far too late at night by Drama, and all these things in a rather more metaphor heavy sense are true of Xander.

He coped rather better, without the whole thing with refusing to come out from under the duvet. Go Xander!

[that_mireille]

I'm sort of... hm. In a normal American high school, Xander and Willow, for example, would have been in different classes most of the time. Willow would have been in honors classes and AP and so on, and Xander would have been in what the last school I worked with just called "regular." (And the fact that Xander was apparently tested for special education, and has issues with math, makes me-the-once-and-future-teacher mutter "Undiagnosed learning disability?")

Instead, Xander, Willow, and Buffy are in the same classes a lot of the time--and if Willow got accepted at prestigious colleges, it seems more likely that Xander took *harder* classes than he might have, than that Willow purposely held herself back.

(Most "slacker" students in the US do not, for example, take trigonometry.) So Xander struggled and got Ds, and got Willow to help him, and *may* have taken harder classes than he actually *had* to--this does not make him a slacker. This makes him a kid whose talents do not lie in academic work.

In other words, What You Said.

[beccaelizabeth]

interesting

I was wondering about ability streams and how that might apply in US schools
Xander and Willow being put in the same one would be a Thing

I don't reckon Willow would hold herself back. I think probably she wouldn't believe she had to, she was always telling Xander he could do things.

Not academic is what I figured. Good with his hands. Good at stuff that seems relevant.

:)

[that_mireille]

In high schools, at least the ones I've worked in/attended/had family members in (that covers 3 different states, but not California), they aren't *put* into those groups (except that there's sometimes a minimum grade requirement before you can get into the advanced/honors classes), but they're *strongly* encouraged to go into tracks that best suit their "ability"--in quotes because there are a lot of factors that influence that, as you definitely know.

(Honestly? Had Xander been one of my advisees, I'd have encouraged him to take vocational/technical classes to see if he had more aptitude/enthusiasm for those, because Ds do not suggest "college-bound," at least not right after high school.)

Completely agreed with you that Willow holding herself back doesn't fit, which means hey, Xander was getting Ds in classes he probably shouldn't have *been* in.

Not academic is what I figured. Good with his hands. Good at stuff that seems relevant.

And perfectly smart, once he gets out into the real world and finds a job that suits him.

[beccaelizabeth]

When I was in school, streams were by ability in Maths and Science, or by choosing subjects in optional subjects, iirc. So Xander and Willow being in the same science class looked a bit odd if Xander wasn't doing so well. But if it was all by choice, that makes different sense.

It seemed like Xander only realised he was good at that practical stuff after he got a job doing it. So he didn't do that stuff in school? Or he didn't notice he was doing it well?

Xander is smart, at many things. People stuff, and practical stuff. Which are the bits I'm bad at, so I think he's brilliant.

[that_mireille]

Okay. This is, as I've said, based on having worked at / attended / been in some other way involved with U.S. high schools. *But* schools vary a lot, and none of these schools was in California. (Also, Buffy does not so much follow normal U.S. high school-ness much of the time, 'cause frankly, had I spent that much time, well after school hours, at school with a handful of my students, I would have spent my *life* in the principal's office being lectured on professionalism, ethical standards, and the need for the school to not be sued because teachers inappropriately touched the students. One day, I *will* write that story that is nothing but faculty-lounge gossip about Giles. *g*)

But yeah, in general, while there *may* be entrance requirements for honors/advanced classes, kids are free to take what they want (in broad terms; there are requirements for graduation, but if a kid wants to take advanced math classes and the most basic English he can, the school won't stop him if he meets the minimum requirements. They may *argue* with him, but won't stop him). In *general*, kids who are as un-academic as Xander get encouraged to at least look at some of the vo-tech classes, if the school has them.

But Xander's taking math/science/history/etc. with Willow and Buffy, and it doesn't *seem* as though he's taking any shop classes. So no, he probably didn't get a chance to see that he was good at the practical stuff until he got a job doing them (and even then, it took "The Replacement" to make him see that he was doing it well).

It's possible that he had to take some kind of shop class in junior high/middle school, because a lot of schools do that--in those grades, there's often a class called something like "exploratory" in which they spend a few weeks doing woodworking, or something like it (and a few weeks doing home economics, and various other things), but he may not have been good at it then. 12-13 year old boys are frequently appallingly clumsy, after all.

The perception of "Xander = dumb" definitely comes from over-valuing academic achievement to the exclusion of all other kinds of intelligence. Which sounds bizarre coming from a grad student-slash-school teacher, but in general, I want my students to work hard and to grow up to be responsible, productive adults. Just because I like school and am good at academic work does not mean it's the only thing to be good at.

(Okay, the perception partly comes from Xander himself, I think, but that's what *he's* doing--equating "smart" with "good at schoolwork.")

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

Yep, that post got my back up too.

As someone who did go to university, and has got a degree, and chose to go into a manual job, I object to the assumption that manual work is something done by idiots and slackers, or that the academia-followed-by-office-work route is the only one acceptable for anyone with a brain.

Xander had one year of flailing around trying to work out what he wanted to do with his life - that is a lot less time than plenty of people take. Then he found what he was good at and enjoyed and soared to meteoric heights in his chosen trade within a ridiculously short period. He was, for example, working far harder than Willow ever did - she was a very intelligent girl who deliberately chose to go to a mediocre university and not surprisingly coasted her way into being the best student such that she was able to spend most of her time studying magic rather than her courses.

As regards the class thing, I don't know of any canon as to his parents' occupations. At one point Cordy says that his father doesn't have a job. And some relative (uncle?) is mentioned as working in the factory that made Moluk, in a floor-sweeping capacity. But then I don't understand the American class system so I wouldn't know what to do with the information. Most Americans seem to say he was of lower class than Buffy or Willow.

[beccaelizabeth]

Uncle, floor sweeping, Moloch factory, yup.
Uncle Roary, taxidermist, mentioned in The Dark Age. I have *no* clue what class that would be.
Jobless parent mentioned by Cordy, yup.
And Cousin Rigby that Xander borrowed a tux from
"They're our only relations with money, and they shun us... as they should."

so, not sounding so middle class
*nods*

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

And Uncle Dave the Plumber (mentioned in "I was made to love you").

[beccaelizabeth]

Three uncles, aunt from the wedding, cousin who doesn't talk to the others. Lots of family.

Now I'm trying to think of uncles or aunts or cousins for other characters.

Buffy had an aunt and a cousin mentioned I think, but right now cannot remember when.

Oz had a mini cousin werewolf.



It kind of seems like Xander got all the family.

[4thdixiechick.livejournal.com]

Hi!
Saw this on su_hearld. This is an excellent analysis from the sociological viewpoint.

From my viewpoint as a veteran teacher, I see a few other factors that would account for Xander's less than stellar GPA: lack of sleep. High school students need 10-12 hours of sleep each night. All those late nights doing research and patrolling had a negative impact on Buffy's grades - everyone acknowledged that. But Xander got the "stupid" label early in life, so his bad grades were never questioned.

I agree with mireille719, that Xander both had an undiagnosed learning disability and that he took harder classes than he ordinarily would've--either by choice, to be with Willow (and later, to be with Willow and Buffy), or because Willow hacked the school computer and changed his schedule - I think that might be canon (can't remember the exact exchange between Willow & Buffy).

And now for my Lit. major perspective: "Said so, out loud and everything, so it is canon. And he studied extra with Willow quite a bit. Lots of effort there."

Xander is an unreliable narrator. He might have downplayed his grades, to be in line with what others expected (the same way Cordelia hid her much-higher-than-is-expected-for-a-cool-kid's GPA). Also, it is seen in the series that Xander reads a lot outside of classwork (I don't mean the research parties), and his vocabulary & references are more extensive than you would expect from an underachiever. It is canon that he was accepted to UC Sunnydale, but didn't have the money to attend.

And as for Willow's help? I remember some of her comments to Xander as encouraging, others as reinforcing his low self-esteem. Willow had a crush on Xander for years; I think she cultivated Xander's dependence on her tutoring. If Xander didn't want her as a girlfriend, then he would at least need her as a tutor.

Uh, to make a long story short? I don't think Xander was a slacker, either. But American high schools love labels, and I think he got that label by process of elimination: he wasn't a jock, a brain, a nerd, etc. It was either slacker or geek, and he barely escaped the geek label.

Wow, that was long. And my first fanwank. (Bet you can guess who my favorite BtVS character is.)

[altyronsmaker.livejournal.com]

Xander is an unreliable narrator. He might have downplayed his grades, to be in line with what others expected

I was thinking this as well! In Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered, he's about to turn in his paper, and remarks about earning the D. We never get to see what grade he actually made. No, I doubt it was an A, because he had other things on his mind than schoolwork, but I can see his as an 'average' student - math aside.

Ohhh! and he never really shared his SAT scores, did he? I mean, not like Buffy and Willow did. he folded up that little piece of paper and said something about his very low combined score, poor kid.

But he was always READING and RESEARCHING - even haphazardly - and would often come up with answers:
The Judge and the bazooka, the lunchlady poisoning them all in Earshot, things like that. NOT stupid, not a slacker, just pre-occupied.

[beccaelizabeth]

Xander to Willow - "And the fact that your 740 verbal closely resembles my combined scores in no way compromises your position as the village idiot."

Might have been downplaying his score to make her cheer up about being smart, but then again it seems unlikely Willow wouldn't know his score, since she used to know his blood pressure.

I figure Xander was good at research he could see the point of ie trying not to die. But a lot of school must seem pretty pointless compared to that.

[that_mireille]

Ohhh! and he never really shared his SAT scores, did he? I mean, not like Buffy and Willow did. he folded up that little piece of paper and said something about his very low combined score, poor kid.


I can believe that he didn't do well on the SAT--he at least *claims* to be bad at math, and a *lot* of kids don't test well. And I don't think he cared all that much, except in the "feeling kind of dumb around his friends" way, so he probably didn't really prepare for the test.

[beccaelizabeth]

I thought it was Cordelia that got accepted but no money.
Xander was planning a road trip and mentioning about low SAT scores.

I do know Xander is potentially an unreliable narrator, but I was being... er, kind of sulky about perceived insult to Xander...
(... also, if Xander said he was accepted to college, that would be no closer to canon than the effort thing)

lack of sleep and high stress out of school job would definitely be significant to grades, yup

[4thdixiechick.livejournal.com]

I thought it was Cordelia that got accepted but no money.
Cordelia was in the same position, but she was accepted to better colleges ;)

And I just read the post you were referring to. Yikes! I don't think that was just a perceived insult to Xander.

[huzzlewhat.livejournal.com]

I've always seen Xander as a lower social class than Buffy and Willow — and Willow in turn as slightly lower than Cordy and Buffy. And I think that knee-jerk disdain for that lower class shows through in lots of small ways throughout the series, but especially in S4, when Xander is searching for his place. Small little snide asides like "not at all Village People," when referring to Xander's construction get-up, and that conversation in the Bronze about how "it's so cool that we're all college students now," followed by skeptical expressions when he tries to enter into the fantasy by saying Townies are attractive, too. It's not that it's malicious, it's just there. There's an awareness and rejection of the blue-collar, non-college lifestyle that's a bit... disturbing, in these otherwise lovable girls. And it doesn't surprise me that of all the Scoobs, Xander was the one who felt, rightly or wrongly, that he "connected" with Faith — the perceived connection of sex aside, Xander and Faith were the closest to speaking the same socio-economic language.

As far as intelligence and 'slacking' is concerned, I've always clung to Joss's early description of Xander and Willow — that Willow was the smart one, and Xander was the clever one. That's a very specific delineation of kinds of intelligence, and it shows pretty clearly through most of the series — that Willow is incredibly book-smart, whereas when it comes to figuring out the way things actually work, Xander is usually a step ahead.

Glad I didn't see the post. Things like that make me cranky. :-)

[beccaelizabeth]

I hadn't connected class to the Village People remark. Good points.

also about Xander and Faith connecting.

I like the Willow and Xander comparison words. Neat.

[francis-eugene.livejournal.com]

I was one of the people who responded to that post.

First, let's be clear on one thing. The term "slacker" was applied to Xander because it appeared he did nothing to improve himself--or lacked drive, i.e. a slacker--in terms of how to fight demons, either through fighting skills, strategy, magic, or anything else.

However, I tried to point out that the fallacy they commit is measuring his "drive" solely by that one factor. I guess that's understandable since fighting demons (real or metaphorical) is central to the show.

But it's canon that Xander (after the mess of 4th season) is most definitely an achiever. It just takes place off-screen and has little to do with directly helping Buffy. And he's helping Buffy--at great risk--in any way he can on top of a full-time job. NOT the sign of a slacker!

They also misread the message Xander was trying to impart to Dawn. He was not whining, he was not complaining. He was pointing out that "normal" people are special too, even if it's not recognized by others. Dawn demonstrated great character during "Potential" and Xander was recognizing her for it.

[beccaelizabeth]

I think I knew that the thing I was responding to wasn't the intended point of the thing that made me think this stuff, or I would have put it in a comment. I just had all these sociology thoughts, rather to my surprise, so I wrote them down.

If there's one thing that annoys me about the Buffyverse its the way that all the super powers can sometimes seem to devalue plain old human choice. Like when Angel decided to be a vampire because being human he couldn't do anything useful :eyeroll: But I think thats Angel being daft, not the attitude of the show. Because, Xander speech, and existence, and Wesley and Gunn and all.

If I was in the Buffyverse I'd be organising self defence classes and making that student power thing at the end of season 3 be more of an ongoing project, but for what I can only assume are reasons of the basic setup, that isn't done. Even when they had that in the background, with Gunn and his crew, they wandered off and didn't show that. Seperated Gunn from his backup even. Plausible character reasons mixed in, but seems an odd choice to me. Surely many would work better than handful? But only handful can be regular characters, so... *shrugs*

[jgracio.livejournal.com]

But I think thats Angel being daft, not the attitude of the show.

I'm not so sure about that. As time went on the show became more and more about people with "The Power", so much so that by S7 it's all about "The Power". S1, not so much, but it changed.

And in Angel, the normal people, the powerless people (or least powerful, since Wesley had some magic), pretty much got dead.

Maybe JW was focussing his powerless people stories into Firefly, leaving the powerful people stories for his other shows, dunno.

[beccaelizabeth]

On Angel pretty much everyone got dead though.

all the potential Slayers had no power except at the end when they chose to get some. could think of them as chosen though.

yeah, its a bit of a problem

[jgracio.livejournal.com]

About Angel, you really don't know that. Joss has said that no, they would've survived, some of them at least, somehow.

The Potentials, Buffy certainly didn't treat them as normal humans, more like I dunno, someone with Power if they only tried a little harder. But I doubt we're to take Buffy's view on them as the right one, but S7 is very hard to understand.


And I had no idea that the US education system was that different from my own. And seeing as the person that posted the original meta is from Belgium, maybe that's also something she's unaware.

Over here, there's no separate classes for different kinds of students. It's all separated by grades, you're in grade 10 and class B, as long as you don't fail, you'll stay with pretty much the same people.

But when it comes to meta I've seen the weirdest things, readings entirely dedicated to supporting whatever view the person has. I think one of the worst ones I've seen is that Xander is a mysonigist, though I'm sure I could find worse if I went looking for meta on Reilly (besides calling him a member of the KKK that is, that one I've seen too).

[skipp-of-ark.livejournal.com]

The original poster of the "Xander = slacker" post is not the first person I've seen argue that Xander should have dedicated himself more towards being an effective demon fighter. I recall one LJ user who posts on TWoP under a different sign-in name who commented that because Xander didn't do so much as "one sit-up" towards training, he therefore had no right to say anything critical of Buffy's choices or decisions (or presumably Giles' or Willow's). Then he took it a step further and speculated how, if the Scoobies hadn't operated under the dynamic of a group of friends but instead something more "professional" like a sports team with a superstar player, it would have allowed for a dynamic in which Buffy could have adapted a policy of "Shut up, Xander, unless you are spoken to, or else get out."

The Belgian poster may have claimed to like Xander, but judging by some of her post's respondents, it seemed like she had simply typed up a ready-made reason for those predisposed to Xander-bashing to cite why Xander is a useless idiot.