Torchwood thoughts continued
Oct. 28th, 2006 12:14 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethCarys doesn't have the usual look for that kind of part. Usually the girl is beautiful, but starts out dowdy and repressed and dressing down, then dresses up when the alien posesses her. Well, for a value of usually that means 'my brain says this from the one time I saw the plot'. Need more data.
But Carys starts off dressed up, then goes all unravelled, ends up looking very strung out, and dressed down. Which actually makes more sense, because if she's using chemistry and pushing then she doesn't need shiny.
She also isn't the curvy ladylike, she's kind of skinny and boyish, relatively speaking. I mean if you ripped her shirt open she wouldn't be as springy as Gwen.
Just generally not what I'd expect, and modifying the meaning of the whole setup - she gets more vulnerable and trashed looking as she goes along, comes across as younger too, at least to me. So the more she is victimised by the alien the more of a victim she looks. Instead of the usual power sex look. Different meaning.
Carys means 'love'. Surprisingly enough.
But there's also 'Carries' in it.
So, name game on the regular characters.
Toshiko Sato
I looked up Sato and apparently it is the Japanese equivalent of Smith, in that it is the most common name. It says it is made of the characters for "assistance" and "wisteria". I lack data on if that is therefore the literal meaning.
On the wiki page for Japanese names it reckons "female names often end in -ko ("child") [...] (Since 1980, the popularity of female names ending in -ko has dramatically fallen for new baby names and some women drop the -ko upon adulthood.)"
... Making calling her Tosh actually more polite/respectful??
But further down the page it says "Male names occasionally end with the syllable ko, but very rarely using the kanji [child] (most often, if a male name ends in ko, it ends in hiko, using the kanji 彦)."
No, my computer can't show kanji. And it doesn't say what hiko means.
But Toshiko has that one in as well.
The wiki makes Japanese names sound extra complicated.
I'm interested, but starting from such a poor knowledge base it is hard to dig out meaningful data.
Toshiko is a very common Japanese given name.
So common last name + common first name = she is Japanese.
Another website reckons "The name Toshi is a baby girl name. The name Toshi comes from the Japanese origin. In Japanese The meaning of the name Toshi is: Mirror reflection."
Now that's interesting. To me, anyway. Themey.
here reckons:
Toshi: Mirror Image : Girl Name
Toshiro: Talented; intelligent: Boy Name
"Since quite a few kanji have identical pronunciations, first names that are pronounced the same, are not necessarily written with the same kanji."
Which... makes translating the romanized versions tricksy?
Toshiko again listed as a girl's name... where the meanings? Not so helpful.
"Tosh", the usual abbreviation of her name so far, is an actual dictionary word and means "Foolish nonsense, pretentious or silly talk or writing"
But there's an outnumbered meaning that says it means "neat; tidy".
Ianto Jones
Ianto:
This site reckonsIeuan/Ifan/Ioan
Along with Iwan, these are all Welsh forms of John. A diminutive form is Ianto.
IANTO: Pet form of Iefan, meaning "God is gracious"
Dictionary meaning for Jones says An addiction, especially to heroin.
As a surname, of course, it is proverbially common, right up there with Smith.
Definition: A patronymic name meaning "son of John (God has favored or gift of God)." The most common surname in Wales.
Surname Origin: Welsh, English
(about.com)
So, he's Welsh then. I'd never have guessed.
As pointed out in comments, RTD uses Jones a lot. Which makes it a possible intertext reference to Stuart Alan Jones, from Queer as Folk. (Which I just realised imdb spells two different ways. I don't know which is right either.)
Ianto is a form of John. Jones is a form of John (son of John). So basically his name is John John in Welsh. That's distinctive and easy to mine for meaning that is ;-)
Here has a listing for the name John, with a bunch of associations like John the Baptist, and that dude that wrote Revelations.
Since Jack is another form of John then the names either make a connection or mean they're both named with the local variation of the most popular name for their apparent gender.
Owen Harper
Owen: Well born.
Here reckons
Owein — (OH-wayn) from Latin name Eugenius (Eugene) "well- or noble-born"; some sources list it as "young warrior". Owain, Owen.
Aha, here has a more thorough listing -
OWAIN
Gender: Masculine
Usage: Welsh, Welsh Mythology
Pronounced: O-wien
There are several theories on the origins of this name: it could be a Welsh form of EUGENE; it could be derived from either of the Welsh elements oen "lamb" or eoghunn "youth"; or it could be related to Esos, the name of a Celtic god. In Arthurian legend Owain, also called Yvain, was one of the knights of the Round Table, the son of King Urien and the slayer of the knight of the fountain.
Yes, I know Owen is not quite Owain, but we get the Arthur connection, which is always fun.
Also, they all live under a fountain. So you end up wondering.
Owen has almost the same letters as Gwen.
It sounds like Owing.
and Oh When (will we get rid of him? :-p)
Dictionary meaning for Harper: a person who plays the harp; a person who harps on a subject.
Harper starts the same as Harkness but ends up different. I find this Deeply Meaningful ;-)
Gwen Cooper
Gwen doesn't seem to be short for anything, on the website stuff and such.
GWEN: Fair, white, shining, blessed, holy. More sites give 'fair, white' than the other bits.
huh... here mentions "Gwyn ap Nudd was the leader of the Wild Hunt and the lord of lost souls." Cool.
Gwyn shows up on all the celtic male names pages I'm finding Ianto and Owen. The writers stayed local for most names then.
Gwen has almost the same letters as Owen.
It sounds like Going.
or Go When. Which is fun in a time travel-y way.
It can be short for Guenevere - wife of King Arthur; in some versions of the legend she became Lancelot's lover and that led to the end of the Knights of the Round Table.
But it is a more day to day sort of version.
Plus, can you really see this lot getting broken up by who shags who?
More likely to end up a threesome. (No, that is no spoiler, that is just me.)
OTOH I just looked up Rhys and it means King, so... *sigh*
Actually the other site has Rhys down as "ardour, passion" which is much better. In a potentially ironic way.
Yes, I 'ship the couple that are actually a couple. I know that makes me strange.
Dictionary meaning for Cooper: One that makes or repairs wooden barrels and tubs; to make or repair; to furnish or fix.
It also looks like Copper, without actually being copper.
Also Coper, as in someone that can cope.
Captain Jack Harkness
Dictionary meaning for Jack: ... Well the list goes to 29 for the first version. You can look them up. Suffice to say, this is a much used and versatile word, that can in fact mean versatile, among many other things. Lifting, support, knave, connection, something you stick things in, or of course to masturbate.
Other versions include armour or a container for liquor.
There's a lot of meaning hanging on it, basically.
As a name it is common enough it is used as a generic form of address - not exactly polite, to my mind, but in the dictionary it reckons "Hey, Jack" is like "Hey, Buddy" - can say it to anyone.
Which leaves you to wonder about when precisely Jack acquired the name.
Harkness is a bit different.
Dictionary has it as the last name of a U.S. philanthropist.
Hark means to listen attentively, and -ness is the quality of it (kindness, brightness), so it means the quality of listening attentively. Which Jack certainly gives the impression of.
There's also the idiom: hark back : To return to a previous point, as in a narrative.
Plus the fact that Hark is an archaic word.
It has an old fashioned feel, mush like the outfit.
It also says Hark is usually used in the imperative - as an order. Add that to the Captain bit and he sounds all in charge.
But it isn't just Hark, is Harkness, so it more fuzzy than that.
Fun - all of them have dictionary words in their names.
I added a bunch more stuff when I woke up.
Several of the names are local variations on John Smith, which vaguely suggests a certain lack of deep and meaningful put into them.
Probably other people have done this better. But I like fiddling with name meanings. Names are chosen to stick the rest of the symbols to, along with actors in a TV show. Naming and being named implies power relations. See who gets a title, who gets an abbreviation, who chooses their own name or refuses one someone tries to hang on them. And names have a ton of connotations built in. Sometimes, figure out the name, figure out the character.
Of course sometimes somebody hit the random name generator, but you never know until you look.
But Carys starts off dressed up, then goes all unravelled, ends up looking very strung out, and dressed down. Which actually makes more sense, because if she's using chemistry and pushing then she doesn't need shiny.
She also isn't the curvy ladylike, she's kind of skinny and boyish, relatively speaking. I mean if you ripped her shirt open she wouldn't be as springy as Gwen.
Just generally not what I'd expect, and modifying the meaning of the whole setup - she gets more vulnerable and trashed looking as she goes along, comes across as younger too, at least to me. So the more she is victimised by the alien the more of a victim she looks. Instead of the usual power sex look. Different meaning.
Carys means 'love'. Surprisingly enough.
But there's also 'Carries' in it.
So, name game on the regular characters.
Toshiko Sato
I looked up Sato and apparently it is the Japanese equivalent of Smith, in that it is the most common name. It says it is made of the characters for "assistance" and "wisteria". I lack data on if that is therefore the literal meaning.
On the wiki page for Japanese names it reckons "female names often end in -ko ("child") [...] (Since 1980, the popularity of female names ending in -ko has dramatically fallen for new baby names and some women drop the -ko upon adulthood.)"
... Making calling her Tosh actually more polite/respectful??
But further down the page it says "Male names occasionally end with the syllable ko, but very rarely using the kanji [child] (most often, if a male name ends in ko, it ends in hiko, using the kanji 彦)."
No, my computer can't show kanji. And it doesn't say what hiko means.
But Toshiko has that one in as well.
The wiki makes Japanese names sound extra complicated.
I'm interested, but starting from such a poor knowledge base it is hard to dig out meaningful data.
Toshiko is a very common Japanese given name.
So common last name + common first name = she is Japanese.
Another website reckons "The name Toshi is a baby girl name. The name Toshi comes from the Japanese origin. In Japanese The meaning of the name Toshi is: Mirror reflection."
Now that's interesting. To me, anyway. Themey.
here reckons:
Toshi: Mirror Image : Girl Name
Toshiro: Talented; intelligent: Boy Name
"Since quite a few kanji have identical pronunciations, first names that are pronounced the same, are not necessarily written with the same kanji."
Which... makes translating the romanized versions tricksy?
Toshiko again listed as a girl's name... where the meanings? Not so helpful.
"Tosh", the usual abbreviation of her name so far, is an actual dictionary word and means "Foolish nonsense, pretentious or silly talk or writing"
But there's an outnumbered meaning that says it means "neat; tidy".
Ianto Jones
Ianto:
This site reckonsIeuan/Ifan/Ioan
Along with Iwan, these are all Welsh forms of John. A diminutive form is Ianto.
IANTO: Pet form of Iefan, meaning "God is gracious"
Dictionary meaning for Jones says An addiction, especially to heroin.
As a surname, of course, it is proverbially common, right up there with Smith.
Definition: A patronymic name meaning "son of John (God has favored or gift of God)." The most common surname in Wales.
Surname Origin: Welsh, English
(about.com)
So, he's Welsh then. I'd never have guessed.
As pointed out in comments, RTD uses Jones a lot. Which makes it a possible intertext reference to Stuart Alan Jones, from Queer as Folk. (Which I just realised imdb spells two different ways. I don't know which is right either.)
Ianto is a form of John. Jones is a form of John (son of John). So basically his name is John John in Welsh. That's distinctive and easy to mine for meaning that is ;-)
Here has a listing for the name John, with a bunch of associations like John the Baptist, and that dude that wrote Revelations.
Since Jack is another form of John then the names either make a connection or mean they're both named with the local variation of the most popular name for their apparent gender.
Owen Harper
Owen: Well born.
Here reckons
Owein — (OH-wayn) from Latin name Eugenius (Eugene) "well- or noble-born"; some sources list it as "young warrior". Owain, Owen.
Aha, here has a more thorough listing -
OWAIN
Gender: Masculine
Usage: Welsh, Welsh Mythology
Pronounced: O-wien
There are several theories on the origins of this name: it could be a Welsh form of EUGENE; it could be derived from either of the Welsh elements oen "lamb" or eoghunn "youth"; or it could be related to Esos, the name of a Celtic god. In Arthurian legend Owain, also called Yvain, was one of the knights of the Round Table, the son of King Urien and the slayer of the knight of the fountain.
Yes, I know Owen is not quite Owain, but we get the Arthur connection, which is always fun.
Also, they all live under a fountain. So you end up wondering.
Owen has almost the same letters as Gwen.
It sounds like Owing.
and Oh When (will we get rid of him? :-p)
Dictionary meaning for Harper: a person who plays the harp; a person who harps on a subject.
Harper starts the same as Harkness but ends up different. I find this Deeply Meaningful ;-)
Gwen Cooper
Gwen doesn't seem to be short for anything, on the website stuff and such.
GWEN: Fair, white, shining, blessed, holy. More sites give 'fair, white' than the other bits.
huh... here mentions "Gwyn ap Nudd was the leader of the Wild Hunt and the lord of lost souls." Cool.
Gwyn shows up on all the celtic male names pages I'm finding Ianto and Owen. The writers stayed local for most names then.
Gwen has almost the same letters as Owen.
It sounds like Going.
or Go When. Which is fun in a time travel-y way.
It can be short for Guenevere - wife of King Arthur; in some versions of the legend she became Lancelot's lover and that led to the end of the Knights of the Round Table.
But it is a more day to day sort of version.
Plus, can you really see this lot getting broken up by who shags who?
More likely to end up a threesome. (No, that is no spoiler, that is just me.)
OTOH I just looked up Rhys and it means King, so... *sigh*
Actually the other site has Rhys down as "ardour, passion" which is much better. In a potentially ironic way.
Yes, I 'ship the couple that are actually a couple. I know that makes me strange.
Dictionary meaning for Cooper: One that makes or repairs wooden barrels and tubs; to make or repair; to furnish or fix.
It also looks like Copper, without actually being copper.
Also Coper, as in someone that can cope.
Captain Jack Harkness
Dictionary meaning for Jack: ... Well the list goes to 29 for the first version. You can look them up. Suffice to say, this is a much used and versatile word, that can in fact mean versatile, among many other things. Lifting, support, knave, connection, something you stick things in, or of course to masturbate.
Other versions include armour or a container for liquor.
There's a lot of meaning hanging on it, basically.
As a name it is common enough it is used as a generic form of address - not exactly polite, to my mind, but in the dictionary it reckons "Hey, Jack" is like "Hey, Buddy" - can say it to anyone.
Which leaves you to wonder about when precisely Jack acquired the name.
Harkness is a bit different.
Dictionary has it as the last name of a U.S. philanthropist.
Hark means to listen attentively, and -ness is the quality of it (kindness, brightness), so it means the quality of listening attentively. Which Jack certainly gives the impression of.
There's also the idiom: hark back : To return to a previous point, as in a narrative.
Plus the fact that Hark is an archaic word.
It has an old fashioned feel, mush like the outfit.
It also says Hark is usually used in the imperative - as an order. Add that to the Captain bit and he sounds all in charge.
But it isn't just Hark, is Harkness, so it more fuzzy than that.
Fun - all of them have dictionary words in their names.
I added a bunch more stuff when I woke up.
Several of the names are local variations on John Smith, which vaguely suggests a certain lack of deep and meaningful put into them.
Probably other people have done this better. But I like fiddling with name meanings. Names are chosen to stick the rest of the symbols to, along with actors in a TV show. Naming and being named implies power relations. See who gets a title, who gets an abbreviation, who chooses their own name or refuses one someone tries to hang on them. And names have a ton of connotations built in. Sometimes, figure out the name, figure out the character.
Of course sometimes somebody hit the random name generator, but you never know until you look.
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no subject
Date: 2006-10-27 11:26 pm (UTC)I think there's an interview that states that Jack was named after the Marvel comics character Agatha Harkness, who was a witch (and worked as a nanny for, I think, the Fantastic Four.)
no subject
Date: 2006-10-27 11:30 pm (UTC)Still reads as a symbol for people that don't know that.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-28 11:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-28 11:56 am (UTC)apparently some families take over the RTDverse
no subject
Date: 2006-10-28 01:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-28 12:30 pm (UTC)and *double nod*
no subject
Date: 2006-10-28 08:44 pm (UTC)But Toshiko has that one in as well."
Nope, it doesn't. Japanese doesn't have an alphabet of letters, it's an alphabet of syllables. Toshiko is To-shi-ko; hiko is hi-ko. Therefore it would mean something different. [/random Japanese knowledge]
You've come up with some very interesting ideas though :) Names are fun.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-28 11:25 pm (UTC)