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beccaelizabethOkay, I've been thinking about things structurally again. In Lit the other week we did an exercise where we asked what would change if we took one thing out, or changed one thing, or took away a character.
Characters have/are story functions. When novels are adapted for film often they take away characters, which leaves their functions to be redistributed to other characters. Which frequently annoys. Or those functions get left out entirely, which changes the story rather, which again annoys.
How this applies to Torchwood.
Take Ianto out of last night's ep and it changes not at all. We lose one line of vaguely funny about Splott. That line contains fake-posh and misrepresentation through overpolishing, so I can mine it for meaning, but it don't change the story much if any. Although giving it to another character might change them. It has a bit of cynical and a lot of local. Gwen is local, but less cynical?
The only other thing Ianto does is right at the end, Jack hands him the alien tech and Ianto says 'Secure archives'. Jack acts as if that is that all done with. Ianto=secure archives. But, well, if every *other* character has taken stuff home, even Gwen, then... Ianto=human, so. Possibly less secure.
Within this story his function is that of a talking box (put stuff there). But there might be knock on, which would be fun.
In one of the Declassified it said they filmed 1&2 in a block. If they film 3&4 in a block that might explain the relative lack of Ianto. By this hypothesis next ep will be heavy on Ianto and relatively light on Owen. Possibly more Tosh there, but she did actually have lines in this one, just a vague lack of impact.
Jack and Gwen remain sort of central, I suspect. BUT not always on screen. Previously Gwen was our way in, and our main point of view. But we got scenes from other pov. This ep we get a lot more from other pov, though still a lot of Gwen.
What we don't seem to get is Jack from any other pov. We see Jack through Gwen. Always Jack+Gwen so far? Except in that initial chase sequence, where he was in the car and didn't catch up. And of course there are team moments. More accurate to say always Rhys+Gwen, and often Jack+Gwen. I want to see Jack+anyone else, to see who else he is.
Take Toshiko out of last night's episode and a few bits of data dump have to be redistributed.
Plus Owen ends up completely isolated. As it is, Owen+Tosh=leisure time liason. They were talking over drink outside of work. This makes them connected in a new and different way. And changes Owen's character - he could have acquired all that information on his own, maybe told the audience about it via typing, or thought-voice, but he didn't, he was talking to Tosh. Ties him in to the group. He didn't dump the group to go vigilante, he ducked *Jack*, with co-operation from Tosh.
He also ducked Gwen and Ianto. Gwen is Gwen+Jack a lot, and Ianto on the website is the one who points out their expenses are too expensive, so that makes sense.
So Tosh is Tosh+Owen now.
If you change who catches the device under the bridge...
Within story logic that vision would have been there for any of them.
Owen saw it for a reason.
Someone in the![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
torch_wood reaction thread said "Gwen sees someone immature, lonely, bewildered and deeply out of their depth. Owen sees a rapist."
There's more to dig out in the Gwen part, but sticking to the Owen part right now - that is only accurate in that it said *sees*. If we go with who he *senses* it is a rape *victim*.
(Incidental tangent - dislike labels like victim, that tend to stick. Being acted on does not redefine people. But the alternative language does not spring to mind right now.)
Anyways, to read the impact, swap who sees it - say for a moment it was Tosh caught the viewer. She sees the vision, and she empathises with the victim. Then to carry on the role reversal theme, say it was Tosh+Owen=drinks again later, and Owen has the information for her. To me that would echo and put all that "You're a bad one" stuff on Owen, and all the young-inexperienced-mistake-death stuff on Toshiko. In that case it would be a warning, hinting at badness for such a relationship.
But it *isn't* Tosh who sees it. It is Owen.
Imagine the first person he saw was Ed Morgan. The emotion sharing portion of the device gives him the feelings of a rapist. He relives the rape and murder from the man's side. He comes out of that vision horrified and disgusted, maybe throws up, the whole big reaction. Then he spends the rest of the episode chasing Ed and angry at him.
Such a vision would at once make Owen=Ed and distance them, because Owen would reject the = and try and make there be a difference between them. Threaten to kill Ed to make it right for the rape. Then decide not to. So you have rejection of the idea of rape without embracing the idea of murder.
We get a little of that in the episode, but the difference is key - Owen=victim. Owen experiences it through the victim. So while the easy identification is Owen=Ed, it isn't the one the story gives us. Owen felt like the one getting raped at knife point. The young, in the dark, slightly vain, loves to be told they're smart, wants to be seen as smart and lets that let the bad one close enough it gets them killed, rape victim.
I'm wondering if I asked the wrong question about the rape spray - someone had to collect it in the first place. Maybe someone used it on themselves in Owen's presence, and it was only later he figured out what that meant. That would explain how he got hold of it and it didn't end up locked up safe.
So would 'Torchwood had it but he pocketed it', which is what happens on the website to some other alien tech.
But he was victim side last week too. So I'm wondering, is that all payback, or is it setup?
If Gwen = alone, in a new 'world', out of her depth, waiting for someone to come find her.
Owen = alone but going off with people and regretting it, out of his/her depth, wanting someone to see her/him, especially as smart and unique and not following the pack, and letting her/his guard down when they do to the point where they get in big trouble.
By having Owen experience the girl's fear then it remains a warning, but doesn't map easily onto Tosh/Owen or any other pair he's in right now, so it doesn't map anyone else into the Ed role. Whilst his previous actions, with the rape spray, leaves him a little bit =Ed. He's both people in that scene.
Which leaves one to wonder how the device works - Gwen only saw a flashforward (prolepsis) of her own self, the only one feeling that intensely right then. Was that because (a) it was herself and you can only see your own future, which would match Bernie's vision, or (b) because she was the only one feeling enough to see. Because if (b) then maybe Owen felt both of the people he saw? But only mentioned the fear, only mentioned her. Hid the other and dealt with it himself.
If I was reading this as seeds I'd say we've got a nice bit of Tragic Flaw going on in Owen. Possibly not tragic in the sense we'll be sad to see him splat by it, but in the sense that he's got these character traits and actions that can lead him into situations where he goes splat.
So does Gwen. Empathy put her in the cell with Cerys last week, curiousity put her in the corridor with the Weevil, and combined with a little bit of stupid had her press the button this week. Aside from the stupid, we've got two positive character traits, but they can be the twisty rubber band in how it all goes horribly wrong.
Also re-using actors kind of brings along their previous associations, and we know how/why it ended badly last time.
There's also all the romance classics - lust, love, wanting a connection, looking in all the wrong ways and quite a lot of wrong places. That stuff applies probably to everyone. Though Jack is showing remarkable lack of shagging anyone yet.
But the flashback (analepsis) Gwen saw had someone waiting for someone to come find them. If that = Gwen then... Still waiting? Now? She's in this new world and a bit lost and, in that scene even physically, alone. Waiting for someone now?
People that found her were Jack and Owen.
Scene with Jack later. Jack being the boss, and then telling her how to use guns. New skill happy.
Scene with Owen? Some antagonism in a group setting, then taking him along to do talking to the now-grown-up-but-not-over-it man. Calls Owen the trainee - well they're pretending to be police, so she has more experience on that one, but its upside down of her new position.
Flashbacks in her flat, again, "Fully trained police officer". Training and qualification emotionally significant to her?
Incidentally, once again she sees two people there - Gwen+Rhys. Does she *sense* both? If she does, by the time Rhys comes home, she knows exactly how he feels about her. Which would be lovely, to feel the love someone has for you. But that was what she was feeling in the regular way within the scenes she saw, so even if she 'only' felt her own emotions there, that would be a lot of happy snuggly.
But... was that a happy snuggly face back in her time?
I like how much she can make him smile just telling him he's gorgeous.
If they're doomed I'll be very, very annoyed.
I suspect this means they're doomed.
How does any of this reflect on the All About Jack theory?
Well, in this episode we find out he lives in the Hub.
There's another character in the ep who doesn't leave where he lives. Ed the agoraphobic.
(Toshiko called him claustrophobic in the bar - seems like a mistake, but could be he's got both problems.)
Ed feels that everyone who looks at him can see him. Just like he told the girl he could see her. Feels that they look at him and can see him and see what he has done. So he hides.
Jack...?
I don't know. He's cranky, angry, got some noticeable overlap with cranky angry Owen. Don't want him to have any overlap with grotesque old Ed. But... old. You have to wonder.
How long has Jack been down there?
And for a time travelling galactic citizen, does it count as agoraphobia to just confine yourself to Cardiff?
(There's also beige on Ed, but this week not on Jack. So I don't know if that's a connection or a deliberate not connection. Er, both?)
So... what is it Jack doesn't want anyone to see? How does he feel about being seen? Gwen so far is the one who sees him (the one we see him through). How does he react to that?
There's a whole link back to the Panopticon thing I was thinking last week but I haven't poked it enough to think it on paper yet. But, being seen, surveillance, cameras, who does the seeing, who is watched. Tosh watches and is not watched. Jack lives among those screens, so could do the same thing, watching the world. But both mediated by technology. When he goes out and hangs out on rooftops or steps outside to see the sunrise he's getting the direct experience, not the tech mediated echo (ghost).
Experience mediated by technology therefore a Thing, emotion via machine. Gwen put it away and made new memories. Jack packed it in the safe.
Toshiko's tech gives her a view that Gwen on the ground didn't have - reading and misreading - Tosh knew Gwen had the tech even when Gwen believed she'd lost the target, but that was because Tosh identified the man-in-a-hoodie as a target, and Gwen only got the outside bit.
Metonymy, part stands for whole, like Hoodie, taking clothes for whole person. Like Rapist, taking act for whole person. Reduces them. Only see part. Some parts would want to see, some not so much. Had to see much unwanted this time, and be seen in unwanted ways.
As ever, no idea if I'm finding anything meaningful, just taking some ideas for a walk. I find it fun. There might be more fun later. Odds are I'll re-watch the ep again at some point. All this is from memory. Apparently this is what my brain does in its sleep.
I woke up... bugger, about an hour before I got up, but I'm having one of my deeply disinclined days. The sort where I'm all why bother, why move, why not just quit the course and read a lot of books and not have to leave the house ever again.
(Just to be clear, my agoraphobia has nothing to do with Dark Secrets. Just World Is Big. ;-) )
ANYways, what finally got me up is wanting to write down stuff about Torchwood.
And this lit stuff being all useful is just handy for the motivation.
Characters have/are story functions. When novels are adapted for film often they take away characters, which leaves their functions to be redistributed to other characters. Which frequently annoys. Or those functions get left out entirely, which changes the story rather, which again annoys.
How this applies to Torchwood.
Take Ianto out of last night's ep and it changes not at all. We lose one line of vaguely funny about Splott. That line contains fake-posh and misrepresentation through overpolishing, so I can mine it for meaning, but it don't change the story much if any. Although giving it to another character might change them. It has a bit of cynical and a lot of local. Gwen is local, but less cynical?
The only other thing Ianto does is right at the end, Jack hands him the alien tech and Ianto says 'Secure archives'. Jack acts as if that is that all done with. Ianto=secure archives. But, well, if every *other* character has taken stuff home, even Gwen, then... Ianto=human, so. Possibly less secure.
Within this story his function is that of a talking box (put stuff there). But there might be knock on, which would be fun.
In one of the Declassified it said they filmed 1&2 in a block. If they film 3&4 in a block that might explain the relative lack of Ianto. By this hypothesis next ep will be heavy on Ianto and relatively light on Owen. Possibly more Tosh there, but she did actually have lines in this one, just a vague lack of impact.
Jack and Gwen remain sort of central, I suspect. BUT not always on screen. Previously Gwen was our way in, and our main point of view. But we got scenes from other pov. This ep we get a lot more from other pov, though still a lot of Gwen.
What we don't seem to get is Jack from any other pov. We see Jack through Gwen. Always Jack+Gwen so far? Except in that initial chase sequence, where he was in the car and didn't catch up. And of course there are team moments. More accurate to say always Rhys+Gwen, and often Jack+Gwen. I want to see Jack+anyone else, to see who else he is.
Take Toshiko out of last night's episode and a few bits of data dump have to be redistributed.
Plus Owen ends up completely isolated. As it is, Owen+Tosh=leisure time liason. They were talking over drink outside of work. This makes them connected in a new and different way. And changes Owen's character - he could have acquired all that information on his own, maybe told the audience about it via typing, or thought-voice, but he didn't, he was talking to Tosh. Ties him in to the group. He didn't dump the group to go vigilante, he ducked *Jack*, with co-operation from Tosh.
He also ducked Gwen and Ianto. Gwen is Gwen+Jack a lot, and Ianto on the website is the one who points out their expenses are too expensive, so that makes sense.
So Tosh is Tosh+Owen now.
If you change who catches the device under the bridge...
Within story logic that vision would have been there for any of them.
Owen saw it for a reason.
Someone in the
torch_wood reaction thread said "Gwen sees someone immature, lonely, bewildered and deeply out of their depth. Owen sees a rapist."There's more to dig out in the Gwen part, but sticking to the Owen part right now - that is only accurate in that it said *sees*. If we go with who he *senses* it is a rape *victim*.
(Incidental tangent - dislike labels like victim, that tend to stick. Being acted on does not redefine people. But the alternative language does not spring to mind right now.)
Anyways, to read the impact, swap who sees it - say for a moment it was Tosh caught the viewer. She sees the vision, and she empathises with the victim. Then to carry on the role reversal theme, say it was Tosh+Owen=drinks again later, and Owen has the information for her. To me that would echo and put all that "You're a bad one" stuff on Owen, and all the young-inexperienced-mistake-death stuff on Toshiko. In that case it would be a warning, hinting at badness for such a relationship.
But it *isn't* Tosh who sees it. It is Owen.
Imagine the first person he saw was Ed Morgan. The emotion sharing portion of the device gives him the feelings of a rapist. He relives the rape and murder from the man's side. He comes out of that vision horrified and disgusted, maybe throws up, the whole big reaction. Then he spends the rest of the episode chasing Ed and angry at him.
Such a vision would at once make Owen=Ed and distance them, because Owen would reject the = and try and make there be a difference between them. Threaten to kill Ed to make it right for the rape. Then decide not to. So you have rejection of the idea of rape without embracing the idea of murder.
We get a little of that in the episode, but the difference is key - Owen=victim. Owen experiences it through the victim. So while the easy identification is Owen=Ed, it isn't the one the story gives us. Owen felt like the one getting raped at knife point. The young, in the dark, slightly vain, loves to be told they're smart, wants to be seen as smart and lets that let the bad one close enough it gets them killed, rape victim.
I'm wondering if I asked the wrong question about the rape spray - someone had to collect it in the first place. Maybe someone used it on themselves in Owen's presence, and it was only later he figured out what that meant. That would explain how he got hold of it and it didn't end up locked up safe.
So would 'Torchwood had it but he pocketed it', which is what happens on the website to some other alien tech.
But he was victim side last week too. So I'm wondering, is that all payback, or is it setup?
If Gwen = alone, in a new 'world', out of her depth, waiting for someone to come find her.
Owen = alone but going off with people and regretting it, out of his/her depth, wanting someone to see her/him, especially as smart and unique and not following the pack, and letting her/his guard down when they do to the point where they get in big trouble.
By having Owen experience the girl's fear then it remains a warning, but doesn't map easily onto Tosh/Owen or any other pair he's in right now, so it doesn't map anyone else into the Ed role. Whilst his previous actions, with the rape spray, leaves him a little bit =Ed. He's both people in that scene.
Which leaves one to wonder how the device works - Gwen only saw a flashforward (prolepsis) of her own self, the only one feeling that intensely right then. Was that because (a) it was herself and you can only see your own future, which would match Bernie's vision, or (b) because she was the only one feeling enough to see. Because if (b) then maybe Owen felt both of the people he saw? But only mentioned the fear, only mentioned her. Hid the other and dealt with it himself.
If I was reading this as seeds I'd say we've got a nice bit of Tragic Flaw going on in Owen. Possibly not tragic in the sense we'll be sad to see him splat by it, but in the sense that he's got these character traits and actions that can lead him into situations where he goes splat.
So does Gwen. Empathy put her in the cell with Cerys last week, curiousity put her in the corridor with the Weevil, and combined with a little bit of stupid had her press the button this week. Aside from the stupid, we've got two positive character traits, but they can be the twisty rubber band in how it all goes horribly wrong.
Also re-using actors kind of brings along their previous associations, and we know how/why it ended badly last time.
There's also all the romance classics - lust, love, wanting a connection, looking in all the wrong ways and quite a lot of wrong places. That stuff applies probably to everyone. Though Jack is showing remarkable lack of shagging anyone yet.
But the flashback (analepsis) Gwen saw had someone waiting for someone to come find them. If that = Gwen then... Still waiting? Now? She's in this new world and a bit lost and, in that scene even physically, alone. Waiting for someone now?
People that found her were Jack and Owen.
Scene with Jack later. Jack being the boss, and then telling her how to use guns. New skill happy.
Scene with Owen? Some antagonism in a group setting, then taking him along to do talking to the now-grown-up-but-not-over-it man. Calls Owen the trainee - well they're pretending to be police, so she has more experience on that one, but its upside down of her new position.
Flashbacks in her flat, again, "Fully trained police officer". Training and qualification emotionally significant to her?
Incidentally, once again she sees two people there - Gwen+Rhys. Does she *sense* both? If she does, by the time Rhys comes home, she knows exactly how he feels about her. Which would be lovely, to feel the love someone has for you. But that was what she was feeling in the regular way within the scenes she saw, so even if she 'only' felt her own emotions there, that would be a lot of happy snuggly.
But... was that a happy snuggly face back in her time?
I like how much she can make him smile just telling him he's gorgeous.
If they're doomed I'll be very, very annoyed.
I suspect this means they're doomed.
How does any of this reflect on the All About Jack theory?
Well, in this episode we find out he lives in the Hub.
There's another character in the ep who doesn't leave where he lives. Ed the agoraphobic.
(Toshiko called him claustrophobic in the bar - seems like a mistake, but could be he's got both problems.)
Ed feels that everyone who looks at him can see him. Just like he told the girl he could see her. Feels that they look at him and can see him and see what he has done. So he hides.
Jack...?
I don't know. He's cranky, angry, got some noticeable overlap with cranky angry Owen. Don't want him to have any overlap with grotesque old Ed. But... old. You have to wonder.
How long has Jack been down there?
And for a time travelling galactic citizen, does it count as agoraphobia to just confine yourself to Cardiff?
(There's also beige on Ed, but this week not on Jack. So I don't know if that's a connection or a deliberate not connection. Er, both?)
So... what is it Jack doesn't want anyone to see? How does he feel about being seen? Gwen so far is the one who sees him (the one we see him through). How does he react to that?
There's a whole link back to the Panopticon thing I was thinking last week but I haven't poked it enough to think it on paper yet. But, being seen, surveillance, cameras, who does the seeing, who is watched. Tosh watches and is not watched. Jack lives among those screens, so could do the same thing, watching the world. But both mediated by technology. When he goes out and hangs out on rooftops or steps outside to see the sunrise he's getting the direct experience, not the tech mediated echo (ghost).
Experience mediated by technology therefore a Thing, emotion via machine. Gwen put it away and made new memories. Jack packed it in the safe.
Toshiko's tech gives her a view that Gwen on the ground didn't have - reading and misreading - Tosh knew Gwen had the tech even when Gwen believed she'd lost the target, but that was because Tosh identified the man-in-a-hoodie as a target, and Gwen only got the outside bit.
Metonymy, part stands for whole, like Hoodie, taking clothes for whole person. Like Rapist, taking act for whole person. Reduces them. Only see part. Some parts would want to see, some not so much. Had to see much unwanted this time, and be seen in unwanted ways.
As ever, no idea if I'm finding anything meaningful, just taking some ideas for a walk. I find it fun. There might be more fun later. Odds are I'll re-watch the ep again at some point. All this is from memory. Apparently this is what my brain does in its sleep.
I woke up... bugger, about an hour before I got up, but I'm having one of my deeply disinclined days. The sort where I'm all why bother, why move, why not just quit the course and read a lot of books and not have to leave the house ever again.
(Just to be clear, my agoraphobia has nothing to do with Dark Secrets. Just World Is Big. ;-) )
ANYways, what finally got me up is wanting to write down stuff about Torchwood.
And this lit stuff being all useful is just handy for the motivation.