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beccaelizabethSo, Torchwood series 1 had a theme
a really depressing theme, but clearly a thing it kept going back to
suicide
building up to a Big Heroic Suicide in the last episode
but
it didn't stick.
and when Jack came back he said thank you
to my mind, that means that at least for that minute he's over the whole "felt so alive" deathwish immortality angst thing.
which would be very very good
cause then he could get on with living.
if this was the Jossverse it would be right about now he'd become mortal again.
I'd really hate that.
Because that would be the universe up and saying death is inevitable, haha sucker, got to accept it.
Unless
they then do a quest to get it back
but that would be very Master like and kinda contrary to the carpe diem thing Jack has going on.
I think it would be a better balance all in all to be immortal and carpe diem anyway. Just cause you live a long time doesn't mean you can't fill it up properly.
Poetry book says it's all love vs death
which irritates me
but
if love leads to death?
muchmuch worse.
Rose going shiny was a love vs death moment... though it included a whole leads-to-Dalek-death bit that was a bit dubious if you think of Daleks as actual people. But since they seem to be more usually portrayed as plague in a tank... *shrugs*.
Ianto thought the Lisa thing was a love vs death, but it was a love leads to death, and a right mess.
That weren't a suicide thing... actually no, that were a suicide as distraction thing, which is a tad bit strange. Grand heroic sacrifice! Oops it wore off... Grand heroic sacrifice! Again! Wheee!
But it was, either way, a love isn't enough thing.
Not on it's own.
Death has a tendency to win.
Unless you're Rose and make with the potentially universe destroying shiny.
If I were Ianto, or indeed anyone not-Rose in that universe, I'd be a tad bit irritated at the pure self centered small mindedness of her one wish. Make Jack immortal? Okay, yaay, but... not anyone else? Thanks bunches, shiny!Rose.
Except there's worse things than death. Immortal Lisa as cyberman would be on the list. Hence the killing her.
Except - and this is kinda important - I'm not sure I agree, really, with the 'worse things' approach, not once you have actual immortality to play with. Because given sufficient time anything is fixable. No more time, no more fixing. And I know Jack says 'never', but that just means never that he knows, and probably not with their own resources. And it being really dangerous to try, due to the infectious nature of the cyber meme.
The bad thing is removing the capacity to change.
While there is change there is perfectability.
Daleks and Cybermen can in fact change, else there wouldn't have been a suicidal Dalek or a woman shaped cyber. They just, generally speaking, don't, and have a tendency to kill themselves to avoid it.
I don't like stories that tell us death is yaay. I just don't. Death is unyaay, and we fight it all the way down.
So Jack should stay immortal, and find a way to share it. And get on with more important things, like filling up the time with living.
a really depressing theme, but clearly a thing it kept going back to
suicide
building up to a Big Heroic Suicide in the last episode
but
it didn't stick.
and when Jack came back he said thank you
to my mind, that means that at least for that minute he's over the whole "felt so alive" deathwish immortality angst thing.
which would be very very good
cause then he could get on with living.
if this was the Jossverse it would be right about now he'd become mortal again.
I'd really hate that.
Because that would be the universe up and saying death is inevitable, haha sucker, got to accept it.
Unless
they then do a quest to get it back
but that would be very Master like and kinda contrary to the carpe diem thing Jack has going on.
I think it would be a better balance all in all to be immortal and carpe diem anyway. Just cause you live a long time doesn't mean you can't fill it up properly.
Poetry book says it's all love vs death
which irritates me
but
if love leads to death?
muchmuch worse.
Rose going shiny was a love vs death moment... though it included a whole leads-to-Dalek-death bit that was a bit dubious if you think of Daleks as actual people. But since they seem to be more usually portrayed as plague in a tank... *shrugs*.
Ianto thought the Lisa thing was a love vs death, but it was a love leads to death, and a right mess.
That weren't a suicide thing... actually no, that were a suicide as distraction thing, which is a tad bit strange. Grand heroic sacrifice! Oops it wore off... Grand heroic sacrifice! Again! Wheee!
But it was, either way, a love isn't enough thing.
Not on it's own.
Death has a tendency to win.
Unless you're Rose and make with the potentially universe destroying shiny.
If I were Ianto, or indeed anyone not-Rose in that universe, I'd be a tad bit irritated at the pure self centered small mindedness of her one wish. Make Jack immortal? Okay, yaay, but... not anyone else? Thanks bunches, shiny!Rose.
Except there's worse things than death. Immortal Lisa as cyberman would be on the list. Hence the killing her.
Except - and this is kinda important - I'm not sure I agree, really, with the 'worse things' approach, not once you have actual immortality to play with. Because given sufficient time anything is fixable. No more time, no more fixing. And I know Jack says 'never', but that just means never that he knows, and probably not with their own resources. And it being really dangerous to try, due to the infectious nature of the cyber meme.
The bad thing is removing the capacity to change.
While there is change there is perfectability.
Daleks and Cybermen can in fact change, else there wouldn't have been a suicidal Dalek or a woman shaped cyber. They just, generally speaking, don't, and have a tendency to kill themselves to avoid it.
I don't like stories that tell us death is yaay. I just don't. Death is unyaay, and we fight it all the way down.
So Jack should stay immortal, and find a way to share it. And get on with more important things, like filling up the time with living.
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Date: 2007-03-09 12:41 pm (UTC)Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Thought it was worth sharing.