Still not Gwen

[beccaelizabeth]

It just crossed my mind another reason why I don't precisely like the character Gwen, especially in a Jack/Gwen kind of context.

From the start, it wasn't Torchwood she was chasing, or aliens, it was Jack Harkness. She followed him into all this. She remembered his name, chased his records, followed him in the hospital - followed his coat! So it's like she's all about Jack, he's her reason.

This irritates on a feminist level.

I mean, yeah, I followed Jack to Torchwood, but that's a teensy different. I'm watching a character. Gwen's having a career. Ought to be a bit of a different set of reasons there.

There's also the thing where she said they could use Torchwood tech to help the police. But she *said* that. She never *did* that. The closest she got was 1-08, where it was directly aimed at Torchwood anyway, and she got some kind of weird comeuppance where she got kind of dead. Because clearly her alternative of practical assistance would just get everyone into trouble and so the universe proves her wrong. And the alien toys have to stay in the box.

... that part continues to bug me. Torchwood existing? Fine. Torchwood not sharing? Not fine.

It's like... Tosh looks at all the data and sees people from beyond the stars and chases after that. She's got her reasons for being with Torchwood and they're not Jack Harkness.

Gwen?

... while Jack/Gwen is a minor background note it's a minor background bugging me, but if it turns up front and center... not so very good.



Sometimes it's not about the guy. Is one reason I like that one episode cop lady that much, she's not remotely about the guy even when Jack tries it on a bit. Gwen... seems very much about the guys, in general.


But then so do other characters, Ianto and Jack included, so what am I complaining about?

... I'm trying to think up conversations between women, and the only ones I'm thinking of are about guys (Tosh&Gwen discuss Owen/Diane, and Gwen&...that 50s girl talk about sex). That would be ungood.



Hmmm... have found another actual reason to like 1-09: Gwen doing police stuff just because!
... except the way that was told it was about Eugene fancying her, so, er, slightly not so helpful...

Comments

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Interesting comments.

My love/hate relationship with Gwen fluctuates. Currently I'm on a 'loving Gwen' upswing. I like it that she chased after Jack, I like it that she's the way she is, and I like her on a feminist level - which is to say, I can take her as an individual rather than a statement of gender politics. Currently I like the way she interacts.

Which is not to say I disagree with anything you've said, just that on totally irrational levels, my appreciation of Gwen is running high, despite the things about her that annoy me. Which are not, on the whole, the things you mention - my worst problem with her by far is her chronic lying. But in my current mood, I can forgive her easily, and see it as an interesting (although unfortunate) character flaw.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

From the start, it wasn't Torchwood she was chasing, or aliens, it was Jack Harkness. She followed him into all this. She remembered his name, chased his records, followed him in the hospital - followed his coat! So it's like she's all about Jack, he's her reason.

With the caveat that I've only just gotten hold of Torchwood and my thoughts may change after additional viewings -

I didn't see this as Gwen chasing Jack in this instance. I saw it more as investigating the "wrongness" of Torchwood's actions (taking over a crime scene, contaminating it, and then leaving) and why that was allowed. As a cop she'd have been trained that there are standard operating procedures in place for a reason, and Gwen seemed, at least in ep 1, as someone who felt those SOP should be followed, and if they weren't followed, then there should be a reason why they weren't.

The names "Torchwood" and "Jack Harkness" were all she had to go on for her research. When the "reference librarian" cop came back with a WWII Capt. Jack Harkness, and a no JH born in the last 50 years, that just added more fuel to Gwen's "something's wrong with this picture" fire. Put the sight of Jack/someone in the same recognizable-and-out-of-current-fashion long coat racing up a flight of stairs and disappearing into a sealed-off area, add the Weevil incident and Torchwood team's departure from the hospital, and IMHO it's no wonder Gwen chased them. The Torchwooders simply disappearing at the water tower was the final touch to the situation and her "By God, I'm going to find out what's going on; this is wrong, wrong, wrong" cop personality took over.

That being said, I've only got, at the best, a lukewarm like for Gwen, and like her best when she's doing regular police work (analysis, Caris' life stuff, etc.) I despise the way she's treating Rhys; I get the impression that he's a lot more committed to her than she is to him, and feel that if we're shown she can treat him this badly so quickly after starting at Torchwood, then she'd never have spent as long with him pre-Torchwood as she apparently has. I know the show has explained that there's no one other than the team members she can talk to about the Torchwood experience, but I'd think she'd have had to edit what she'd said to Rhys in the past about her "normal police" job - at least occasionally. As talkative as she is, I don't see her keeping her feelings bottled up 24 hours a day and internalizing her distress - she'd be babbling about them all over Torchwood to the point that the team members would drug her coffee or bung her in a cell just to shut her up.

Is one reason I like that one episode cop lady that much, she's not remotely about the guy even when Jack tries it on a bit.

I would definitely like to see more interaction with "regular" law enforcement, and loved the way this episode portrayed it.

... while Jack/Gwen is a minor background note it's a minor background bugging me, but if it turns up front and center... not so very good

I really, really don't want her and Jack to hook up as anything more than good friends. Frankly, with the situation Jack is in, and with what he's learned about human nature by having lived through 100+ years of relationships of various types (social, business, etc.), I don't see him being more than good friends with his team members. IMHO, he'd keep his...um...physical relationships...completely outside the office and they'd much more of a casual/spontaneous thing.

[strangerian.livejournal.com]

The post above, stlscape, is what I was thinking, too. Gwen sees something off, something wrong, with Jack and Torchwood, and it tickles her detecting, policing mind, and she follows it to find out what's going on. Then she winds up in Torchwood, and while the show is intriguing and pretty as all get-out, it's not all that consistent. She's sometimes capable and aware of procedure; she's sometimes emotional and just does things.

I do think that, for all the Jack/Gwen vibes, she winds up being a friend, not a lover, to Jack. And *that's* really interesting -- when was the last time a show with a personable pair of m/f leads didn't push them into a romance? Okay, X-Files (before it mutated), which TW is trying to echo in a kind of surface-y way. But still, the Torchwood sex-n-death mandate does allow both of them to connect with multiple other partners for sex, highlighting that whatever closeness they do have, doesn't have to be sexual.

Umm, sorry for dropping in on you. I've been seeing Torchwood this spring and haven't had a place to talk about it much.