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beccaelizabeth2-05 Adam was great
and yet is now completely overshadowed by 2-06 Reset, despite intermittent clunk in the script, because of that ending... and then there was the Next Week to just... mess with our heads?
Urgh.
So spoilers for all of that lot.
starting at the end - Oh *fuck*. Yes, that's the spoiler I read. No, I don't like it. Owen! I mean, yeah he's a miserable git, but he's our miserable git, you know? They spend all season so far making us like him and making him all competent and stuff and then... you know when Tosh clarified the whole 'date' thing and he accepted I said "Oh fuck, doomed!" Because narrative causality is king. I mean, okay, Ianto managed to survive accepting a date with Jack, but that was in the first episode. And then there's the interview data sources. Ianto and Jack were supposed to be an ongoing thing, so, not-doomed. But Owen? I read only one interview and it didn't have any future spoilers... and then I got a horrible niggly feeling because how, after only 4 episodes, was everything he was saying a lack-of-spoiler? He said nothing would happen with Tosh... so that's the other way I knew Doomed Doomed Doomed. So suddenly I hate that I read an interview and a spoiler. Fuck. Didn't want to know this was coming. Didn't like it. Don't want to believe it.
Which seems to be the attitude of Team Torchwood if the Next Week promo is anything to go by. Immediate follow up, Owen on the autopsy table... and how messed up is that? Feels bad. And then what was it he said, hoping for a miracle? Wrong show, Jack.
... I wanna go watch the kid show now. Except they kill people quite a lot too. The little kid show maybe? *sigh*
So, from outside the text info also... Martha has more episodes? So... did they just make Martha the Replacement??? Urgh. That's just... how stupid is that? What, they can't have two medical people? They have entire hospital shows!
*headdesk*
Owen was the twisty rubber band that drove the plot to exploding point in season 1. In season 2 he hasn't been twisty. And now he's been shot. Dead. Apparently. Unless it's comics dead. That would be nice.
Oh, also? If Martha had followed orders? Owen would not be dead. Wonderful! Just load her up with issues why don't you! Plus she's landed with 'overconfidence' now, instead of stellar competence, which okay, makes her fit in Torchwood better, but still.
*sigh*
2-06 apart from the ending... I liked how Martha was introduced and mixed in with the team. I liked her conversations with everyone. With Gwen, and how they're the last two on Earth Jack isn't shagging. With Ianto, and extrapolating from 'uniform' to... how did he phrase it? Avant garde dabbling? I loved how he went away for a moment there. Heh. I like that Tosh noticed she was beautiful... even if it's arguably only noticing Owen noticed. I have my happy Tosh/Martha place to work on. Except now it's an angsty Tosh/Martha/absence-of-Owen place. Also Martha has a boyfriend. Who saved her life. Heh, Owen's one up on that... and she doesn't get a reset.
On Doctor Who terrible things happened to the whole world and only Martha's family, Martha, and Jack seem to be even remembering. Everyone who died got better. Except the bad guy.
Torchwood? Does not get to hit rewind this time. They did for Rhys, they do for Jack, but Owen is fucked. And, okay, he shot his Captain, but I spent a whole year getting into his head to write him, understanding reasons why that seemed logical and such for the whole team, and it stopped seeming like a shooting offence. And this year he saved the day every episode, pretty much. So he isn't the bad guy. On Torchwood the good guys get shot when they aren't even threatening anyone and the bad guy can't get anything out of it.
What's with that anyway? It's an idiot move to shoot one of a team, it's an idiot move to do revenge, it's just... dumb. The bad guy had to be dumb. Which is one reason Owen wasn't dumb to think he wouldn't do it.
Torchwood are dumb about armour. Regular police wear more than Torchwood do. Now it bites them.
Terrible things happened to aliens, and Jack cared. That's nice. The Pharm was run by the government, doing stuff like Torchwood only more specialised. That's... typical. But Jack isn't answering to Whitehall any more... and thinks he can get away with it? Well that's going to be a trip, watching him try. He really means that 'outside the government' bit... and now they know it. Consequences much?
That repeated 'reset to factory settings' bit got to be seriously clunky. I liked most of the interaction but some of the lines not so much. Also, is it just me or did Torchwood go up a tech level and then some? Those lens things? Last year they were using bluetooth earpieces, this year they have invisible ear things and these magic contact lenses. Jumped much? And then it failed, naturally, to put her in extra jeopardy. Eesh.
Owen... on the one hand, Owen was exactly the Owen he is in my head once he stopped drinking. Er, I mean Owen-in-my-head had his rock bottom bad days right after Jack left, stopped drinking and started being less of a git. And then Owen-on-TV was too. And Owen-in-my-head is the kind of guy who would put himself between his team and danger, just like in Cyberwoman. And this time he tried it... and got shot by some idiot human.
Torchwood is being fairly consistent with that humans-are-the-worst-monsters bit.
which actually loops back to 2-05 pretty well.
You know, while I was watching this, for the first time I was *raised eyebrow* about Barrowman's acting. I mean... even to me, that was... odd. Like the volume was up to 11 and the notes a bit wonky. :-/
But! Only sometimes. All the interactions with the team were class. It's just the flashbacks to his childhood that were intermittently WTF.
What we learn about Jack: Childhood=Boeshane. Mum+Dad=Jack&Gray. Standard family unit, not very SF. Sulk. He let go of Gray's hand and that's the worst moment of his life? Seriously? I mean, really, everything he's done, that's the worst? I guess the first worst moment and the uncertainty of it would grind it right in to bedrock badness. And then his dad was dead and his mom was missing his brother and it was all woe.
I did like the building. That was pretty.
And then Adam working himself into the memory... oh that was nasty. So Jack had to forget that? But only that last memory, right? I mean, all the memories before that would still be there... unless he repressed the lot of them.
How much of Jack's head is in a box?
... sand falling out of that box. Weird. Also sad.
The others being not-they was just rather cool. Owen in the glasses and cardigan... what, does he always need glasses and just not have them?
... BTW, did I hear right and they said Owen was 27? That's... significantly younger than his actor. And how long would he be a doctor then? Let alone with Torchwood. I don't see how that works. Also, if Tosh was born 75 like Mary said, Owen was a bit younger than her. But if the magazine is right Tosh is a bit younger than that... urgh, ignore.
Owen in glasses and cardigan... because he forgot specifically that memory he reached back to at the end? Soooo... if his mother hadn't kicked him out he wouldn't be such a bastard. Okay.
Where was that bit in the books said his dad died and he found him? I was sure there was such a bit. Mind you, I've read every bit of fanfic I could find all last year, so *shrugs*
Owen declaring his undying love for Tosh though... that seemed more like they'd been specifically swapped. I mean, his 'puppy bringing sticks' behaviour did seem fairly precisely like Tosh. Which made it funny.
... and I'm sure I don't feel at all weird having laughed at him right before he got shot.
... I really hate that he got shot.
Also, I'm tempted to write up my 'how Martha meets Torchwood' story that I planned in the gap between seasons. It doesn't fit at all, but the ways it doesn't fit say to me quite a lot about how Torchwood changed for the second season. I mean, lately? Are Torchwood the good guys? And how morally dubious are they? It seems like they're being positioned as the middle ground, even while saying they're acting totally illegally. I don't think I like that.
ANYways
Tosh being all confident... was that because she forgot she used to be unpopular, or because she remembered someone wanting and understanding her for a year? Bit of both? It was really nasty and messed up to just dump a year long relationship in her head. Rape on a scale I don't want to get my head around.
And what was done to Ianto... bad bad bad. But even with those memories in, with remembering enjoying murder and disposing of bodies on a non-professional basis, it couldn't twist Ianto. His first reaction was to tell Jack and try to protect the team, even from himself. Got to love that.
Also: he keeps a diary. A paper diary. With writing in it. About everyone.
... and measuring. Heh. Jack read it.
But: old school paper archive Ianto. Just a touch Giles-y but without the technophobia; he's good with the tech too. I think it goes real well with him using a fountain pen (to fill in Suzie's death certificate) and wearing those suits and that too-perfect silver tray moment with the weapons. He's just classic.
Jack? Believed in Ianto, even when he wouldn't believe in himself. Even when the best technology told him a very bad thing. And you'd think that Jack would have grounds to doubt - "You hid yourself from us" - but that was last year, and he's been getting to know Ianto since. And even then, the motives? Killing for fun just doesn't fit.
Plus he wouldn't want to believe. I mean, Ianto turning into John would be of the bad, but he's got to be able to imagine it.
Gwen and Rhys... I liked the question, but I'm not sure I liked the answers. Would Gwen even notice him if they had no history? Would they fit if they met now? Well we don't precisely find out. We just find out Gwen likes kissing a guy who already knows exactly what she likes. It's hopeful, but not a whole answer.
We get a lot more about Rhys though, all the first. And Gwen and Rhys met at college? Um, would that be 6th form college? Or a useage of college for university that would be non-standard in the UK (I do it because I'm doing a degree at a college not a uni) and not what I'd expect for Rhys' job. But if they've been together since 6th form that's, like, their whole adult lives. Actually, even if it was uni. 6th form would make it more like US version high school sweethearts.
Rhys doesn't quite know Gwen though. I mean, she's had affairs. He just always thought she was the one he'd marry.
... does that fit, BTW? I don't know.
It do seem unfair, a bit. I mean, the more I like Rhys, the more Gwen needs to sort herself out.
... she loves Rhys, but not the same way she loves Jack. That can mean so many things. And go wrong soooooo many ways. But hey, interesting ways.
... I don't like it how only the declassified seems to remember there ever was Owen/Gwen. I mean, I know real life drops plot threads all the time, but it was kind of like... I don't know, Owen got disentangled and then dropped? I may be bitter.
Them round the table, telling Jack their defining moments. Ianto doesn't get a new one. Well, he's young, and the Lisa thing would be the big deal. We still don't know anything about his parents though. I notice this only because that slightly cracky DW connection vaguely appeals. Not the point though.
Jack really cares about his team. How he knew about Adam? He had the memories without the feelings. Has feelings about his team. Is good.
And he'd give up old memories to save his people. Bit of a no brainer from the Vulcan perspective, but hell of a choice for him. Losing memories is something he was bitter about when we met him, memories defining us is what the episode was about, and here he is giving up a piece of that definition for his team.
We haven't seen the last of the Gray story though. Totally haven't. Cool.
In the midst of all this character goodness... how was that alien meant to be logical? I mean, he blinked out of existence when they didn't remember him, right? But he made them remember through touch? And he fell through the Rift two days ago... but not all Adam shaped. In the box? Is the box? If he's in their minds, why the touch limitation? If he isn't, why the fading out? It's another time we have to not think about the plot too hard. Which, okay, no surprise, but.
... maybe Adam isn't gone-gone but can come back later. Hmmm, is a bit of a one trick pony though.
Oh, thing I did like: They totally Superstar-ed the opening credits. Mixed Adam into them. Nifty.
... and I end back at the beginning.
I've been upset about the Owen thing since I read the spoiler. I just thought it was such a waste in story terms, and so likely to keep taking Torchwood away from what it was in season 1. They want a happy Enterprise type team; they wouldn't make a hero out of a rapist; BG keeps hearing about the date rape spray. I read those things in interviews and now I'm wondering if they played in to this decision. But I'm a Spike fan, an Ethan fan, a writer who thinks the heroes who seem to find it easy aren't half as much fun. Owen was like a tool kit, a piece that fit to make a bunch of stories twistier.
Maybe they don't want Torchwood to be twisted any more.
But with the way they're treating their power? Not so much worky. Torchwood still being bad guys. Just... differently now. Saving aliens? Different in a way that's so going to backfire... and killing them saying it's mercy cause they're dying anyway? Exactly what the badder guys just got through saying! No clear lines here. Which I like, I just worry about getting messed up.
And I have no idea what's going to happen next week. None. Owen could be gone, he could be ungone, he could be undead or gone evil, anything could happen. Which is cool on a writing level, but... Owen got shot! Bad! Don't like it!
Okay, that's a whole lot of words. Reaction. And now I want to go watch them over again. Is there a repeat tonight? It feels like repeat time. But no, I can find no repeat.
... I have them on disc. Heh. No need repeat!
... is it next week yet?
... I wants next week.
and yet is now completely overshadowed by 2-06 Reset, despite intermittent clunk in the script, because of that ending... and then there was the Next Week to just... mess with our heads?
Urgh.
So spoilers for all of that lot.
starting at the end - Oh *fuck*. Yes, that's the spoiler I read. No, I don't like it. Owen! I mean, yeah he's a miserable git, but he's our miserable git, you know? They spend all season so far making us like him and making him all competent and stuff and then... you know when Tosh clarified the whole 'date' thing and he accepted I said "Oh fuck, doomed!" Because narrative causality is king. I mean, okay, Ianto managed to survive accepting a date with Jack, but that was in the first episode. And then there's the interview data sources. Ianto and Jack were supposed to be an ongoing thing, so, not-doomed. But Owen? I read only one interview and it didn't have any future spoilers... and then I got a horrible niggly feeling because how, after only 4 episodes, was everything he was saying a lack-of-spoiler? He said nothing would happen with Tosh... so that's the other way I knew Doomed Doomed Doomed. So suddenly I hate that I read an interview and a spoiler. Fuck. Didn't want to know this was coming. Didn't like it. Don't want to believe it.
Which seems to be the attitude of Team Torchwood if the Next Week promo is anything to go by. Immediate follow up, Owen on the autopsy table... and how messed up is that? Feels bad. And then what was it he said, hoping for a miracle? Wrong show, Jack.
... I wanna go watch the kid show now. Except they kill people quite a lot too. The little kid show maybe? *sigh*
So, from outside the text info also... Martha has more episodes? So... did they just make Martha the Replacement??? Urgh. That's just... how stupid is that? What, they can't have two medical people? They have entire hospital shows!
*headdesk*
Owen was the twisty rubber band that drove the plot to exploding point in season 1. In season 2 he hasn't been twisty. And now he's been shot. Dead. Apparently. Unless it's comics dead. That would be nice.
Oh, also? If Martha had followed orders? Owen would not be dead. Wonderful! Just load her up with issues why don't you! Plus she's landed with 'overconfidence' now, instead of stellar competence, which okay, makes her fit in Torchwood better, but still.
*sigh*
2-06 apart from the ending... I liked how Martha was introduced and mixed in with the team. I liked her conversations with everyone. With Gwen, and how they're the last two on Earth Jack isn't shagging. With Ianto, and extrapolating from 'uniform' to... how did he phrase it? Avant garde dabbling? I loved how he went away for a moment there. Heh. I like that Tosh noticed she was beautiful... even if it's arguably only noticing Owen noticed. I have my happy Tosh/Martha place to work on. Except now it's an angsty Tosh/Martha/absence-of-Owen place. Also Martha has a boyfriend. Who saved her life. Heh, Owen's one up on that... and she doesn't get a reset.
On Doctor Who terrible things happened to the whole world and only Martha's family, Martha, and Jack seem to be even remembering. Everyone who died got better. Except the bad guy.
Torchwood? Does not get to hit rewind this time. They did for Rhys, they do for Jack, but Owen is fucked. And, okay, he shot his Captain, but I spent a whole year getting into his head to write him, understanding reasons why that seemed logical and such for the whole team, and it stopped seeming like a shooting offence. And this year he saved the day every episode, pretty much. So he isn't the bad guy. On Torchwood the good guys get shot when they aren't even threatening anyone and the bad guy can't get anything out of it.
What's with that anyway? It's an idiot move to shoot one of a team, it's an idiot move to do revenge, it's just... dumb. The bad guy had to be dumb. Which is one reason Owen wasn't dumb to think he wouldn't do it.
Torchwood are dumb about armour. Regular police wear more than Torchwood do. Now it bites them.
Terrible things happened to aliens, and Jack cared. That's nice. The Pharm was run by the government, doing stuff like Torchwood only more specialised. That's... typical. But Jack isn't answering to Whitehall any more... and thinks he can get away with it? Well that's going to be a trip, watching him try. He really means that 'outside the government' bit... and now they know it. Consequences much?
That repeated 'reset to factory settings' bit got to be seriously clunky. I liked most of the interaction but some of the lines not so much. Also, is it just me or did Torchwood go up a tech level and then some? Those lens things? Last year they were using bluetooth earpieces, this year they have invisible ear things and these magic contact lenses. Jumped much? And then it failed, naturally, to put her in extra jeopardy. Eesh.
Owen... on the one hand, Owen was exactly the Owen he is in my head once he stopped drinking. Er, I mean Owen-in-my-head had his rock bottom bad days right after Jack left, stopped drinking and started being less of a git. And then Owen-on-TV was too. And Owen-in-my-head is the kind of guy who would put himself between his team and danger, just like in Cyberwoman. And this time he tried it... and got shot by some idiot human.
Torchwood is being fairly consistent with that humans-are-the-worst-monsters bit.
which actually loops back to 2-05 pretty well.
You know, while I was watching this, for the first time I was *raised eyebrow* about Barrowman's acting. I mean... even to me, that was... odd. Like the volume was up to 11 and the notes a bit wonky. :-/
But! Only sometimes. All the interactions with the team were class. It's just the flashbacks to his childhood that were intermittently WTF.
What we learn about Jack: Childhood=Boeshane. Mum+Dad=Jack&Gray. Standard family unit, not very SF. Sulk. He let go of Gray's hand and that's the worst moment of his life? Seriously? I mean, really, everything he's done, that's the worst? I guess the first worst moment and the uncertainty of it would grind it right in to bedrock badness. And then his dad was dead and his mom was missing his brother and it was all woe.
I did like the building. That was pretty.
And then Adam working himself into the memory... oh that was nasty. So Jack had to forget that? But only that last memory, right? I mean, all the memories before that would still be there... unless he repressed the lot of them.
How much of Jack's head is in a box?
... sand falling out of that box. Weird. Also sad.
The others being not-they was just rather cool. Owen in the glasses and cardigan... what, does he always need glasses and just not have them?
... BTW, did I hear right and they said Owen was 27? That's... significantly younger than his actor. And how long would he be a doctor then? Let alone with Torchwood. I don't see how that works. Also, if Tosh was born 75 like Mary said, Owen was a bit younger than her. But if the magazine is right Tosh is a bit younger than that... urgh, ignore.
Owen in glasses and cardigan... because he forgot specifically that memory he reached back to at the end? Soooo... if his mother hadn't kicked him out he wouldn't be such a bastard. Okay.
Where was that bit in the books said his dad died and he found him? I was sure there was such a bit. Mind you, I've read every bit of fanfic I could find all last year, so *shrugs*
Owen declaring his undying love for Tosh though... that seemed more like they'd been specifically swapped. I mean, his 'puppy bringing sticks' behaviour did seem fairly precisely like Tosh. Which made it funny.
... and I'm sure I don't feel at all weird having laughed at him right before he got shot.
... I really hate that he got shot.
Also, I'm tempted to write up my 'how Martha meets Torchwood' story that I planned in the gap between seasons. It doesn't fit at all, but the ways it doesn't fit say to me quite a lot about how Torchwood changed for the second season. I mean, lately? Are Torchwood the good guys? And how morally dubious are they? It seems like they're being positioned as the middle ground, even while saying they're acting totally illegally. I don't think I like that.
ANYways
Tosh being all confident... was that because she forgot she used to be unpopular, or because she remembered someone wanting and understanding her for a year? Bit of both? It was really nasty and messed up to just dump a year long relationship in her head. Rape on a scale I don't want to get my head around.
And what was done to Ianto... bad bad bad. But even with those memories in, with remembering enjoying murder and disposing of bodies on a non-professional basis, it couldn't twist Ianto. His first reaction was to tell Jack and try to protect the team, even from himself. Got to love that.
Also: he keeps a diary. A paper diary. With writing in it. About everyone.
... and measuring. Heh. Jack read it.
But: old school paper archive Ianto. Just a touch Giles-y but without the technophobia; he's good with the tech too. I think it goes real well with him using a fountain pen (to fill in Suzie's death certificate) and wearing those suits and that too-perfect silver tray moment with the weapons. He's just classic.
Jack? Believed in Ianto, even when he wouldn't believe in himself. Even when the best technology told him a very bad thing. And you'd think that Jack would have grounds to doubt - "You hid yourself from us" - but that was last year, and he's been getting to know Ianto since. And even then, the motives? Killing for fun just doesn't fit.
Plus he wouldn't want to believe. I mean, Ianto turning into John would be of the bad, but he's got to be able to imagine it.
Gwen and Rhys... I liked the question, but I'm not sure I liked the answers. Would Gwen even notice him if they had no history? Would they fit if they met now? Well we don't precisely find out. We just find out Gwen likes kissing a guy who already knows exactly what she likes. It's hopeful, but not a whole answer.
We get a lot more about Rhys though, all the first. And Gwen and Rhys met at college? Um, would that be 6th form college? Or a useage of college for university that would be non-standard in the UK (I do it because I'm doing a degree at a college not a uni) and not what I'd expect for Rhys' job. But if they've been together since 6th form that's, like, their whole adult lives. Actually, even if it was uni. 6th form would make it more like US version high school sweethearts.
Rhys doesn't quite know Gwen though. I mean, she's had affairs. He just always thought she was the one he'd marry.
... does that fit, BTW? I don't know.
It do seem unfair, a bit. I mean, the more I like Rhys, the more Gwen needs to sort herself out.
... she loves Rhys, but not the same way she loves Jack. That can mean so many things. And go wrong soooooo many ways. But hey, interesting ways.
... I don't like it how only the declassified seems to remember there ever was Owen/Gwen. I mean, I know real life drops plot threads all the time, but it was kind of like... I don't know, Owen got disentangled and then dropped? I may be bitter.
Them round the table, telling Jack their defining moments. Ianto doesn't get a new one. Well, he's young, and the Lisa thing would be the big deal. We still don't know anything about his parents though. I notice this only because that slightly cracky DW connection vaguely appeals. Not the point though.
Jack really cares about his team. How he knew about Adam? He had the memories without the feelings. Has feelings about his team. Is good.
And he'd give up old memories to save his people. Bit of a no brainer from the Vulcan perspective, but hell of a choice for him. Losing memories is something he was bitter about when we met him, memories defining us is what the episode was about, and here he is giving up a piece of that definition for his team.
We haven't seen the last of the Gray story though. Totally haven't. Cool.
In the midst of all this character goodness... how was that alien meant to be logical? I mean, he blinked out of existence when they didn't remember him, right? But he made them remember through touch? And he fell through the Rift two days ago... but not all Adam shaped. In the box? Is the box? If he's in their minds, why the touch limitation? If he isn't, why the fading out? It's another time we have to not think about the plot too hard. Which, okay, no surprise, but.
... maybe Adam isn't gone-gone but can come back later. Hmmm, is a bit of a one trick pony though.
Oh, thing I did like: They totally Superstar-ed the opening credits. Mixed Adam into them. Nifty.
... and I end back at the beginning.
I've been upset about the Owen thing since I read the spoiler. I just thought it was such a waste in story terms, and so likely to keep taking Torchwood away from what it was in season 1. They want a happy Enterprise type team; they wouldn't make a hero out of a rapist; BG keeps hearing about the date rape spray. I read those things in interviews and now I'm wondering if they played in to this decision. But I'm a Spike fan, an Ethan fan, a writer who thinks the heroes who seem to find it easy aren't half as much fun. Owen was like a tool kit, a piece that fit to make a bunch of stories twistier.
Maybe they don't want Torchwood to be twisted any more.
But with the way they're treating their power? Not so much worky. Torchwood still being bad guys. Just... differently now. Saving aliens? Different in a way that's so going to backfire... and killing them saying it's mercy cause they're dying anyway? Exactly what the badder guys just got through saying! No clear lines here. Which I like, I just worry about getting messed up.
And I have no idea what's going to happen next week. None. Owen could be gone, he could be ungone, he could be undead or gone evil, anything could happen. Which is cool on a writing level, but... Owen got shot! Bad! Don't like it!
Okay, that's a whole lot of words. Reaction. And now I want to go watch them over again. Is there a repeat tonight? It feels like repeat time. But no, I can find no repeat.
... I have them on disc. Heh. No need repeat!
... is it next week yet?
... I wants next week.
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PS
Date: 2008-02-14 12:03 am (UTC)I don't want to know spoilers.
I mean it's tempting and all, but actually, no.
PPS
Date: 2008-02-14 12:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 12:49 am (UTC)Back to Torchwood:
I mean, yeah he's a miserable git, but he's our miserable git, you know?
I know what you mean. When Martha came in and promptly started showing up Owen I had a sudden stab of defensiveness. :)
BTW, did I hear right and they said Owen was 27?
They did, which makes him 6 years younger than his actor.
Rape on a scale I don't want to get my head around.
Ditto. Don't even want to start thinking about the treatment of women in this show. Spent most of last season getting hacked off at them for it.
Actually, even if it was uni. 6th form would make it more like US version high school sweethearts.
Unless they were mature students or retraining.
It's odd. I've spent pretty much since the first episode hating Owen and it's only been the last few weeks where I've kinda not minded him. And now... totally do and don't and do want them to fix it somehow. And I very much want next week.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 01:38 am (UTC)6th form = A levels. College = A levels, and also evening classes, and vocational stuff. And they might have been mature students. I mean, I am, so you'd think I'd think of that first. Could have been doing something a bit different. It just somehow wasn't how I'd been seeing Gwen. Possibly because all the characters are younger than I thought.
treatment of women... I do think on, but it gets complicated. I was thinking in the middle of 2-05 about what if they shifted the stories around to different people, would that fix it? And no, it would probably make it worse. It'd either be a different girl or a queer relationship or a woman using sex to get power over someone. So if they're going to go there it's like Tosh being victimised that way was least worst. Sort of.
Ick.
If Owen=27 and his date of birth in the Torchwood magazine is meant to be right then I think the episode has to happen before 14 Feb 2008. Or he'd be older. If that's so then the TW episodes could be happening on their broadcast date. Unfortunately that clashes badly with the DW timeline.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 11:00 am (UTC)I'm kind of expecting some fanwankery about the COC never being allowed to have a relationship without it being DOOMED! And the same about her treatment by Adam.
I totally can't buy Owen at 27. That makes him my age but I feel like he should be older. But what do I know.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 03:51 pm (UTC)See this is the other reason Tosh needs to date Martha. Aside from it's really pretty in my head.
Owen at 27 just doesn't work. His actor is older, his character has more achievements, it just doesn't work.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 03:22 am (UTC)plus if he could appear so suddenly so often, what was with the being physically threatened and locked up? It's the same with the touching thing - if he can flicker out in the face of disbelief then why would he stay solid for bullets?
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 03:44 pm (UTC)this confused the HELL outta me... I mean, if he's a fully qualified Doctor - well, my friend is 29 and in his third year of his 5 year medical degree and he's only taken one year out between Uni-PostGrad-MedDegree... OK, is that being a bit too geeky? *lol* Plus, Ianto's not meant to be much younger than that, which really confuses me more...
But, all in all, I was really, really shocked. And quite upset. I've always <3'd Owen, despite him being a mardy bastard most of the time.
they'd better air the next ep on BBC3 next week!!!
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Date: 2008-02-14 03:48 pm (UTC)Owen's actor is the right age for Owen's achievements; Owen Harper apparently isn't. I'm coming up with weird time loop based theories to account for the difference, becuse I am writer, but still, no points for them.
And yes, the Torchwood magazine and now the Torchwood episode canon compresses everyone to being in their 20s for no reason I can think of, and erases that baby brother age gap Ianto had going on.
Radio Times says yeah, next ep BBC3 next week at 10pm.
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Date: 2008-02-14 03:51 pm (UTC)I'm goign to stick with my timeline, I think ;)
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Date: 2008-02-14 03:54 pm (UTC)Actually if Owen time slipped six years, had to avoid himself, and is only 27 by the calendar, I could totally make a story out of that...
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Date: 2008-02-14 03:56 pm (UTC)I think my head is going to explode! *lol*
Careers I should never have:
#388724 - Time Lord.
XD
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Date: 2008-02-14 03:45 pm (UTC)6) Okay, we've established that Adam is a total twat by having him mojo Tosh into wanting him. Wasn't that exactly what Owen did in the first episode, when we were supposed to laugh it off? *thwaps showrunners*
and I would have nodded, but the window went away
there's a thing where you can read it as 'the show acknowledges the problems', but you can also read it as 'tis different when its team' and that's the *central* problem with the way Torchwood-the-organisation acts, so...
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Date: 2008-02-14 05:01 pm (UTC)I've read your reaction and about Owen being too young to be a doctor, I read somewhere that he was a genius. He could have completed all his doctor classes and what-have-you before he was even twenty. Extreme, yes, but it has happened, and since when is anything 'normal' on this show?
Martha is a full-fledged doctor, so how old is she? Younger than 27, I'm assuming.
And working for Torchwood must take a toll on him. He's done the partying lifestyle, too. Things like that can age a person, making them look older than they are. I've seen it myself.
It does go on the edge of believability, but it is possible.
Oh, Owen, how I adore thee. Come back, please?
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Date: 2008-02-14 05:21 pm (UTC)There's some more onscreen data that this season of Torchwood is happening in 2008, possibly even on broadcast dates though starting in June makes more sense with the DW timeline.
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Date: 2008-02-21 10:49 pm (UTC)When did they say that? I can't find it in your transcripts BTW.
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Date: 2008-02-22 10:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-23 07:35 am (UTC)