Tosh/Owen and 2-05, and 2-06 actually
Feb. 14th, 2008 08:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethOkay, spoilery 'shippy discussion within, covering all episodes shown so far BUT NOT FUTURE. No spoilers. I mean it.
... I might possibly be getting fed up with people slipping up on that one.
No spoilers past 2-06 Reset.
Tosh and Owen. Cuteness, even if he's not a girl and therefore not what I was hoping for. So far we know Tosh has been pining after Owen. 1-06 Countrycide she kissed him under the mistletoe and actually remembered that for months. 2-04 she brings him sandwiches and attempts to ask him out on a date. As far as they remember the next thing that happens is 2-06, and Tosh clarifying that it was a date. And then Owen accepts. And then... okay, lets stop at that bit.
What we the viewers remember is 2-05, with geek!Owen's declaration of undying love. Where he says he's loved her since the start and all that other stuff that could be kind of sweet if he wasn't totally ignoring her signals of eeew.
The question is, was the love a false memory... or did he just forget his reasons for hiding it?
He said his mum said to seize the day. Geek!Owen is a boy who does what mum told him. So he tells Tosh everything on only the second day of him actually being like this.
So did he have this all bottled up inside? Did losing his cynicism and protective hedgehog make him able to reach out to her? Is geek!Owen more emotionally competent than our regular git?
It's... not an improvement, really. He seems to have lost his confidence, his drive, his need to go after answers cause not knowing gnaws at him. All the stuff that made him the genius they needed, really. I mean, he was willing to take 'don't know' for an answer with Gwen, and thought his suggestions about the box were stupid just because someone else made a noise. That's not Owen, and that's not useful.
But he's courting Tosh, in an awkward offerings way that I entirely sympathise with, which doesn't really work, and which she doesn't-notice in possibly the exact same way he doesn't-notice her.
And everyone else has noticed it. In fact, everyone else remembers it going on for years.
Sadly for Tosh/Owen shippers, that there is a strike against the no-hedgehog theory.
It's a fake memory, and everyone shares the same fake memory. The side effect stuff, like Gwen forgetting Rhys or Jack seeing things, was random and personal and individual. The fake stuff was a shared delusion. Owen reacted with surprise to Tosh and Adam kissing that first time... but later he remembered their relationship too. So Adam was patching it in to the others. So that's one on the side of 'Adam built him that way'. Geek!Owen remembers loving Tosh because Adam thought it would be funny. Patched Owen's memories with Toshiko's behaviour. Yes?
But it's so tempting to think he has this big all consuming love and he just never mentioned it. Because that's what Tosh hopes and we likes her a whole lot. And there is in fact evidence for that behaviour pattern. I mean in 1-04 right after the big kiss in the freezer Owen is all 'not like I fancy you or anything'. And at that point it's a bit difficult to deny - Gwen was right on top of the evidence. So he's twitchy and defensive about his attraction to her. Yet by 1-06 he's all telling everyone they've snogged, and then pushing her up against a tree. So it isn't exactly an unrequited yearning sort of thing. More like telling her she's not important but he's having her anyway.
... er, yeah, I don't much like Owen there.
In the memory scene - which was interesting on rewatch because half the time their lips aren't moving, so half the things we hear they're only thinking, but Jack seems to react to them, so is Jack reading their minds? Or does he only react to the out loud stuff and it just flows together so well it seems like it? Er, that sentence derailed. Owen in the memory scene - his defining moments: The bits he said out loud made his mum sound nice. Saying she loves him on his 10th birthday, 16th birthday best thing she ever done... maybe he remembered those bits when he was geek-who-loves-his-mum? But remembering that she said love-but-not-like (and really, he's Owen, I can see a whole feedback loop of true on that one, though it's still not a nice thing at all), and the good thing being chucking him out? Twitchy defensive Owen has an explanation.
... possibly a bit much of a cliche of an explanation. And someone complained that of course a man's bad behaviour traces back to a woman. That's a good point that is. But not my thought I was having.
Twitchy Owen has reason to distrust the whole love idea. I mean, getting kicked out by someone who loves him, someone who defines love and like separately, that rather messes the concept up. So maybe he feels love but doesn't act on it cause this teamwork thing works better.
... but he shagged Gwen easily enough, and Suzie apparently, and... I just don't buy it.
I think him and Tosh could fit together... but the 2-05 confession was an implanted memory.
Bit sad really.
... I might possibly be getting fed up with people slipping up on that one.
No spoilers past 2-06 Reset.
Tosh and Owen. Cuteness, even if he's not a girl and therefore not what I was hoping for. So far we know Tosh has been pining after Owen. 1-06 Countrycide she kissed him under the mistletoe and actually remembered that for months. 2-04 she brings him sandwiches and attempts to ask him out on a date. As far as they remember the next thing that happens is 2-06, and Tosh clarifying that it was a date. And then Owen accepts. And then... okay, lets stop at that bit.
What we the viewers remember is 2-05, with geek!Owen's declaration of undying love. Where he says he's loved her since the start and all that other stuff that could be kind of sweet if he wasn't totally ignoring her signals of eeew.
The question is, was the love a false memory... or did he just forget his reasons for hiding it?
He said his mum said to seize the day. Geek!Owen is a boy who does what mum told him. So he tells Tosh everything on only the second day of him actually being like this.
So did he have this all bottled up inside? Did losing his cynicism and protective hedgehog make him able to reach out to her? Is geek!Owen more emotionally competent than our regular git?
It's... not an improvement, really. He seems to have lost his confidence, his drive, his need to go after answers cause not knowing gnaws at him. All the stuff that made him the genius they needed, really. I mean, he was willing to take 'don't know' for an answer with Gwen, and thought his suggestions about the box were stupid just because someone else made a noise. That's not Owen, and that's not useful.
But he's courting Tosh, in an awkward offerings way that I entirely sympathise with, which doesn't really work, and which she doesn't-notice in possibly the exact same way he doesn't-notice her.
And everyone else has noticed it. In fact, everyone else remembers it going on for years.
Sadly for Tosh/Owen shippers, that there is a strike against the no-hedgehog theory.
It's a fake memory, and everyone shares the same fake memory. The side effect stuff, like Gwen forgetting Rhys or Jack seeing things, was random and personal and individual. The fake stuff was a shared delusion. Owen reacted with surprise to Tosh and Adam kissing that first time... but later he remembered their relationship too. So Adam was patching it in to the others. So that's one on the side of 'Adam built him that way'. Geek!Owen remembers loving Tosh because Adam thought it would be funny. Patched Owen's memories with Toshiko's behaviour. Yes?
But it's so tempting to think he has this big all consuming love and he just never mentioned it. Because that's what Tosh hopes and we likes her a whole lot. And there is in fact evidence for that behaviour pattern. I mean in 1-04 right after the big kiss in the freezer Owen is all 'not like I fancy you or anything'. And at that point it's a bit difficult to deny - Gwen was right on top of the evidence. So he's twitchy and defensive about his attraction to her. Yet by 1-06 he's all telling everyone they've snogged, and then pushing her up against a tree. So it isn't exactly an unrequited yearning sort of thing. More like telling her she's not important but he's having her anyway.
... er, yeah, I don't much like Owen there.
In the memory scene - which was interesting on rewatch because half the time their lips aren't moving, so half the things we hear they're only thinking, but Jack seems to react to them, so is Jack reading their minds? Or does he only react to the out loud stuff and it just flows together so well it seems like it? Er, that sentence derailed. Owen in the memory scene - his defining moments: The bits he said out loud made his mum sound nice. Saying she loves him on his 10th birthday, 16th birthday best thing she ever done... maybe he remembered those bits when he was geek-who-loves-his-mum? But remembering that she said love-but-not-like (and really, he's Owen, I can see a whole feedback loop of true on that one, though it's still not a nice thing at all), and the good thing being chucking him out? Twitchy defensive Owen has an explanation.
... possibly a bit much of a cliche of an explanation. And someone complained that of course a man's bad behaviour traces back to a woman. That's a good point that is. But not my thought I was having.
Twitchy Owen has reason to distrust the whole love idea. I mean, getting kicked out by someone who loves him, someone who defines love and like separately, that rather messes the concept up. So maybe he feels love but doesn't act on it cause this teamwork thing works better.
... but he shagged Gwen easily enough, and Suzie apparently, and... I just don't buy it.
I think him and Tosh could fit together... but the 2-05 confession was an implanted memory.
Bit sad really.