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beccaelizabethI have some confusion. But it's possible I'm being dumb. So I figure, be dumb in public, have someone point it out, unconfuse.
So, from last month's Torchwood magazine we got Dates of Birth for everyone except Jack. If they're accurate then Reset/DMW happened on or before 13th February 2008 (broadcast date)(however badly that meshes with DW), because Owen's age was mentioned as 27 and his dob was given as 14/02/80, so if it was the 14th then he'd be 28.
I was guessing his age as same as his actor, who I'd guessed correctly from the start. BG born 1974, would make Owen 33 or 34 in 2008. Few years older than me.
But he's 27, and a fully qualified doctor who wrote an MD thesis, plus he's worked the year we've seen of Torchwood and some time before that for him to be 2IC.
This month in Torchwood magazine? I find that Martha Jones, when we meet her in Doctor Who, is meant to be 23. And just about to qualify as a doctor. She was talking about passing exams.
UEA reckons MB/BS Medical Degree takes 5 years. 18+5=23, so if she's 23 that's what she just got.
Under UK registration arrangements operated by the General Medical Council, a medical degree carries a provisional licence to practise as a doctor: this becomes a full licence after a year of satisfactory service - certified by the graduate's university - in approved positions of employment as a Pre-Registration House Officer (PRHO). As far as practicable, UEA graduates will be employed as PRHOs by our NHS partners, so that we can offer support during that year.
Martha is a year older by the end of the last episode of DW, but she wasn't exactly in an approved position in that year. According to the bits on the Torchwood Jobs / game website she's been with UNIT for six months - just had her first evaluation. So is her licence still provisional? Or did she do that bit already?
I'm trying to think of relevant background for Owen, but I'm unsure what my brain's sources are.
So, MB/BS + 1 year practice = licence to practice as a doctor.
but... more complicated?
Doctor of Medicine (MD)
A postgraduate research degree programme for those already registered with the General Medical
Council. Candidates are normally registered for a period of two years part-time advanced study
prior to submission of either a thesis or a substantial body of published work, which will make an original contribution to the field in some subject of medicine.
Owen used whatsisnames research in his MD thesis. So he's done that too.
...Martha?
also, Entry requirements - MD: medically qualified, with at least two years’ relevant clinical or scientific postqualifying employment which provides the basis for submitted work.
So that's 5 years + 1 year = licence to practice
but MD Doctor of Medecine requires all that plus 2 years plus 2 more years?
... mah head hurts.
... what other websites is there...
You know, if you just type Doctor into google, you get Doctor Who. Cool. But for once not useful.
I looked up on the British Medical Association website and found a plan that says how to be a doctor. 5 years undergrad, 2 foundation, minimum 3 postgrad. If they start at 18 that makes them 28 before they're all done.
Which would fit the actors, but apparently not the characters.
from the BMA thing:
What is the career path of a doctor?
After medical school and foundation training, the content and duration of training you receive will depend on whether you wish to pursue training in a specialist area of medicine or in general practice. The scheme below gives a general outline of the different stages of career progression from student to senior doctor.
Medical degree (usually 5 years)
The undergraduate course provides students with some exposure to the different specialties within medicine. It involves basic medical sciences and practical clinical tasks, and seeks to develop attitudes and behaviours appropriate to the medical profession, as well as the skills of independent learning.
Foundation year 1
Newly qualified graduates from medical school receive provisional registration from the General Medical Council (GMC) and undertake foundation year 1 (F1) which is designed to build on the knowledge and skills gained during undergraduate training. On successful completion of F1, trainees receive full registration with the GMC and can continue to the second year of foundation training.
Foundation year 2
Foundation year 2 (F2) training continues the general training in medicine and involves a range of different specialties, which could include general practice. By the end of foundation training, trainees must demonstrate that they are competent in areas such as managing acutely ill patients, team working and communication skills, to continue training in their chosen specialist area or in general practice.
Postgraduate medical education (between 3 and 8 years)
On successful completion of foundation training, doctors continue training in either a specialist area of medicine or in general practice. The area of medicine you choose will determine the length of training required before you can become a senior doctor. In general practice the training is of three years’ duration, and in general surgery, for example, the training is eight years in duration.
During postgraduate medical training, doctors learn and practice increasingly advanced areas of knowledge and skills in their chosen specialty or general practice in order for them to be able
to undertake senior doctor roles once training is completed.
Aha, useful page - 'Want to be a doctor?' - clears up some confusion.
All medical degrees in the United Kingdom are undergraduate degrees (just as Bachelor of Science, BSc is), 'Bachelor of Medicine'. Following graduating we are called doctors. This is an honorary title, as we do not have a postgraduate doctoral degree such as a PhD. However, in some specialities it is necessary to have a postdoctoral degree. Most medical degrees in the UK lead to provisional registration with the General Medical Council.
So Martha is a doctor in the not a doctoral degree sense. Owen is a doctor in the doctoral degree sense. Yet Martha is more cool than him. No fair.
That 'specialities' bit was what got it up to 10 years... I think.
Soooo... I remain confused.
It looks like it takes a long time to be a boss of yourself doctor.
Possibly a longer time than our doctor hero characters have had.
So, from last month's Torchwood magazine we got Dates of Birth for everyone except Jack. If they're accurate then Reset/DMW happened on or before 13th February 2008 (broadcast date)(however badly that meshes with DW), because Owen's age was mentioned as 27 and his dob was given as 14/02/80, so if it was the 14th then he'd be 28.
I was guessing his age as same as his actor, who I'd guessed correctly from the start. BG born 1974, would make Owen 33 or 34 in 2008. Few years older than me.
But he's 27, and a fully qualified doctor who wrote an MD thesis, plus he's worked the year we've seen of Torchwood and some time before that for him to be 2IC.
This month in Torchwood magazine? I find that Martha Jones, when we meet her in Doctor Who, is meant to be 23. And just about to qualify as a doctor. She was talking about passing exams.
UEA reckons MB/BS Medical Degree takes 5 years. 18+5=23, so if she's 23 that's what she just got.
Under UK registration arrangements operated by the General Medical Council, a medical degree carries a provisional licence to practise as a doctor: this becomes a full licence after a year of satisfactory service - certified by the graduate's university - in approved positions of employment as a Pre-Registration House Officer (PRHO). As far as practicable, UEA graduates will be employed as PRHOs by our NHS partners, so that we can offer support during that year.
Martha is a year older by the end of the last episode of DW, but she wasn't exactly in an approved position in that year. According to the bits on the Torchwood Jobs / game website she's been with UNIT for six months - just had her first evaluation. So is her licence still provisional? Or did she do that bit already?
I'm trying to think of relevant background for Owen, but I'm unsure what my brain's sources are.
So, MB/BS + 1 year practice = licence to practice as a doctor.
but... more complicated?
Doctor of Medicine (MD)
A postgraduate research degree programme for those already registered with the General Medical
Council. Candidates are normally registered for a period of two years part-time advanced study
prior to submission of either a thesis or a substantial body of published work, which will make an original contribution to the field in some subject of medicine.
Owen used whatsisnames research in his MD thesis. So he's done that too.
...Martha?
also, Entry requirements - MD: medically qualified, with at least two years’ relevant clinical or scientific postqualifying employment which provides the basis for submitted work.
So that's 5 years + 1 year = licence to practice
but MD Doctor of Medecine requires all that plus 2 years plus 2 more years?
... mah head hurts.
... what other websites is there...
You know, if you just type Doctor into google, you get Doctor Who. Cool. But for once not useful.
I looked up on the British Medical Association website and found a plan that says how to be a doctor. 5 years undergrad, 2 foundation, minimum 3 postgrad. If they start at 18 that makes them 28 before they're all done.
Which would fit the actors, but apparently not the characters.
from the BMA thing:
What is the career path of a doctor?
After medical school and foundation training, the content and duration of training you receive will depend on whether you wish to pursue training in a specialist area of medicine or in general practice. The scheme below gives a general outline of the different stages of career progression from student to senior doctor.
Medical degree (usually 5 years)
The undergraduate course provides students with some exposure to the different specialties within medicine. It involves basic medical sciences and practical clinical tasks, and seeks to develop attitudes and behaviours appropriate to the medical profession, as well as the skills of independent learning.
Foundation year 1
Newly qualified graduates from medical school receive provisional registration from the General Medical Council (GMC) and undertake foundation year 1 (F1) which is designed to build on the knowledge and skills gained during undergraduate training. On successful completion of F1, trainees receive full registration with the GMC and can continue to the second year of foundation training.
Foundation year 2
Foundation year 2 (F2) training continues the general training in medicine and involves a range of different specialties, which could include general practice. By the end of foundation training, trainees must demonstrate that they are competent in areas such as managing acutely ill patients, team working and communication skills, to continue training in their chosen specialist area or in general practice.
Postgraduate medical education (between 3 and 8 years)
On successful completion of foundation training, doctors continue training in either a specialist area of medicine or in general practice. The area of medicine you choose will determine the length of training required before you can become a senior doctor. In general practice the training is of three years’ duration, and in general surgery, for example, the training is eight years in duration.
During postgraduate medical training, doctors learn and practice increasingly advanced areas of knowledge and skills in their chosen specialty or general practice in order for them to be able
to undertake senior doctor roles once training is completed.
Aha, useful page - 'Want to be a doctor?' - clears up some confusion.
All medical degrees in the United Kingdom are undergraduate degrees (just as Bachelor of Science, BSc is), 'Bachelor of Medicine'. Following graduating we are called doctors. This is an honorary title, as we do not have a postgraduate doctoral degree such as a PhD. However, in some specialities it is necessary to have a postdoctoral degree. Most medical degrees in the UK lead to provisional registration with the General Medical Council.
So Martha is a doctor in the not a doctoral degree sense. Owen is a doctor in the doctoral degree sense. Yet Martha is more cool than him. No fair.
That 'specialities' bit was what got it up to 10 years... I think.
Soooo... I remain confused.
It looks like it takes a long time to be a boss of yourself doctor.
Possibly a longer time than our doctor hero characters have had.
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no subject
Date: 2008-02-23 10:09 pm (UTC)I am annoyed at TV's tendency to Make Everyone Young. I was excited when I thought that Tosh and Owen were in their thirties, and that Gwen was probably hovering around thirty. I mean, thirty-something is still fairly young, but it's better than shows where a group of teenagers have to save the world. (And judging by Ianto's comments in To The Last Man, I am going to assume that there's no one older on the team purely because Torchwood agents die young. Not because there's something wrong with going grey.) For some reason, I feel kind of betrayed now that I know that Torchwood Magazine wants them to all be younger. That's probably silly of me, but still.
...I also think it's unfortunate that newly-a-doctor Martha gets to be cooler than lots-of-experience Owen. It isn't like she was in practice during the year that never was, either. I am offended on Owen's behalf, I think.
she's been with UNIT for six months - just had her first evaluation.
Really? I can't access the site, but... really? So does that mean Reset is at least six months later than KKBB? Or this going to be another UNIT dating fiasco?
no subject
Date: 2008-02-23 10:59 pm (UTC)UNIT
STAFF ASSESSMENT REPORT
Jones, Martha (M.D.) - er, meaning she has a MD degree? Well that screws all the logic I just did...
Age is blanked out - 23 might not be right.
position is Medical Officer
"Dr Jones has been with us for six months: this is her first assessment report."
and
"She has an invaluable combination of skills, as in addition to being a fine medical doctor she has rare experience of extra-terrestrial life and a surprising practical knowledge of combat and espionage in spite of having had no formal training. Since joining UNIT Dr Jones has enthusiastically worked with our biological research team to broaden her knowledge and has proved herself to be a quick learner."
and some other stuff.
If Reset is six months after the end of DW season 3 that means it should be christmas. Because DWs3 ended 18 months after christmas, so its another 6 months to the next one. But there's no evidence of christmas. Also, if it's 2008 like all the on screen math suggests then Owen's age goes wrong if it's christmas.
Meat was 1 year after Gwen joined Torchwood, which was some months after the end of DW season 2. So their timelines should line up nicely. Except for the data from the website and magazine suggesting that the TW date = the broadcast date, ish.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-23 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-23 10:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-23 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-24 04:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-24 06:24 pm (UTC)Brilliant text!
Date: 2008-03-25 02:54 am (UTC)