Doctor Who
May. 10th, 2008 07:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethI rather love how it kaboomed fan expectations within the first few seconds.
Okay, so that was an opportunity for DT to do acting really rather well... and yet...
That felt kinda cheap. And oddly stupid. I mean, that's not how it works.
Regeneration = new face. That's how it works. You can't go up to the end and have her just wake up. And they don't get dead first. And they have to choose and do something active, or the Master would have auto rebooted, right? And... okay, actually, it has worked several different ways so far, but. Er, there was that whole fading thing with the monk dude, and the Watcher thing when 4 changed to 5, and the way the TARDIS went nuts when 1 changed to 2. And when 7 changed to 8 he got dead first and went to the morgue, so yeah, that part works. But the only thing they all have in common is a new face!
... Except the Master. We've seen him die a lot, and he keeps the same face quite often.
Okay, I'm not watching the Declassified yet, I'll react first and watch later.
The thing that makes it feel cheap is we got the big angsty ending of DT gets to do his thing that everyone could see coming a mile off, and then we get little miss MarySue waking up all perky and heading off to have her own adventures.
It runs me into the thing where this is kids TV, you know? It feels like they decided not to upset the littles, rather than an earned ending.
Also, she's happy at the end. If she was upset at her Dad not taking her out like he said he would... no, that wouldn't fit her character thus far. She's been little miss perky about everything.
*That's* why she feels like a Mary Sue. One note character of happy, with instant connection to the main guy.
And magic superpowers even he doesn't have.
Argh, damnit, I wanted to love this episode!
Okay, I love everything to do with DT and the Doctor. Everything. That was just gorgeous. And his interaction with Donna, her diagnosing Dad-shock and him saying how he lost his family before. That was great.
And I even love the sci fi way Jenny got created. If you want an instant demonstration of some of the oddness of being biological entities that give stuff away for others to grow, hello to fatherhood. Speed it up a bit is all.
And Jenny reacting like she's a bouncy child and the whole 'war' thing is a game... she has no context, no understanding of the stakes and what she could lose, so yeah, that makes sense.
And I *love* her way of relating to her 'Dad' as a soldier. That's a recurring now (Martha, Jenny, turn them into soldiers) so hello Time War. And I adore the way the Doctor tries to cure her of it.
Okay, this the thing - war should be a horror. People should have reactions of woe. Dead should mean something important. But at what point does Jenny demonstrate any understanding of any of that? Nowhere, because she's new and not figured it out yet. And while that's perfectly logical, it makes the whole thing seem unreal. They're playing at war. I thought the twist would be something like it's a rat maze. Otherwise the thing with the secret passages doesn't make any sense.
There should have been horror in there but it seems like it's up to the audience to understand. So many generations in a week? The death toll must be appalling! And, um, I hit the sciencey questions about where did they get food when they're all soldiers and there seem to be quite a lot of them and did they just pop out of machines and die before lunch? And if they're all 'born' Jenny age then how come the General is older? I could buy him being older and one of the original colonists, but older *and* with the chinese-whispers version of history?
PS not to call it chinese any more, minor ethnicity oddity in the phrasing, why not call it telephone:?
The thing is, with all that war and horror, and the masks and lack of talking, only two deaths 'felt' remotely real. One was the Hoth, and since we couldn't tell them apart or hear them talk it's hard to feel that. We could feel Martha's upset, but. And that Hoth was only dead because of Martha, because of saving Martha (is she developing a complex yet? a little vicious part of me hopes so...) But it didn't feel like war-dead.
So that leaves Jenny.
Now that felt real. Very, very real. And even though he's the guy who nearly died last week cause he had to give them a chance, here he's the guy who you can just for one second believe might pull the trigger. But he's the man who never would.
And with all the revelations about his attitude to family, that moment is really, seriously, earned.
... and then Jenny gets up as bouncy as ever.
*that* feels cheap.
The mystery, the resolution, the emotional arc - everything up until Jenny sits up again felt right, albeit bloody stupid in other ways because instant doomed kid? Urgh with the extra toppings, that's the most obvious angst wrencher ever. So, you know, again with the vaguely cheap. But I could have gone with it...
... I think if she had just regenerated.
Because otherwise? It doesn't work like that.
Or, "too much like me" suggests the Doctor could just die and wake up himself again. Which isn't how he works.
I can't figure out why this doesn't work for me when the whole thing in parts and pieces seems so shiny. I think it's just that one last lack of change. Can I really be that put off by that one thing???
I know... if she regenerated amnesiac, so he has a daughter who doesn't know him any more and has to start over, then that's a loss all round. With potential for reminders later. The culture would have learned from him, but she'd only know him from stories. A bit like Rose and her dad. As it is... she still only knows him from this one story and some hearsay from Donna. And really, if all she's got is the soldier program and please to not be killing anyone, what's her idea of saving planets anyway??? So she's a bit worrying.
So I reckon that would de-cheap the story for me, if she had to regenerate and forget, a bit like 8, who after all was the one who regenerated in the manner most like she did.
Having her keep the same face and everything makes... all the Doctor's feelings be roughly equivalent to the big speech he gave Donna when he thought she was leaving, and how's that for cheapening the moment?
So that's why I am having trouble with this story. It earned all it's angst, albeit with a sledgehammer, and then it pasted on an ending nobody else in the 'verse could get, instead of using a perfectly serviceable ending already available.
And having her regenerate would, really, only lose them the actress. So did they screw the ending because they like the actress? Meh.
She's one of the guests at Bad Wolf. Along with her dad, the Doctor. 5, that is.
... so maybe I should be clear, I'm not being blah at her acting, she made perfect sense for Jenny, I just... aren't ready to follow the story around that corner and keep all those angst points.
:-/
Okay, so that was an opportunity for DT to do acting really rather well... and yet...
That felt kinda cheap. And oddly stupid. I mean, that's not how it works.
Regeneration = new face. That's how it works. You can't go up to the end and have her just wake up. And they don't get dead first. And they have to choose and do something active, or the Master would have auto rebooted, right? And... okay, actually, it has worked several different ways so far, but. Er, there was that whole fading thing with the monk dude, and the Watcher thing when 4 changed to 5, and the way the TARDIS went nuts when 1 changed to 2. And when 7 changed to 8 he got dead first and went to the morgue, so yeah, that part works. But the only thing they all have in common is a new face!
... Except the Master. We've seen him die a lot, and he keeps the same face quite often.
Okay, I'm not watching the Declassified yet, I'll react first and watch later.
The thing that makes it feel cheap is we got the big angsty ending of DT gets to do his thing that everyone could see coming a mile off, and then we get little miss MarySue waking up all perky and heading off to have her own adventures.
It runs me into the thing where this is kids TV, you know? It feels like they decided not to upset the littles, rather than an earned ending.
Also, she's happy at the end. If she was upset at her Dad not taking her out like he said he would... no, that wouldn't fit her character thus far. She's been little miss perky about everything.
*That's* why she feels like a Mary Sue. One note character of happy, with instant connection to the main guy.
And magic superpowers even he doesn't have.
Argh, damnit, I wanted to love this episode!
Okay, I love everything to do with DT and the Doctor. Everything. That was just gorgeous. And his interaction with Donna, her diagnosing Dad-shock and him saying how he lost his family before. That was great.
And I even love the sci fi way Jenny got created. If you want an instant demonstration of some of the oddness of being biological entities that give stuff away for others to grow, hello to fatherhood. Speed it up a bit is all.
And Jenny reacting like she's a bouncy child and the whole 'war' thing is a game... she has no context, no understanding of the stakes and what she could lose, so yeah, that makes sense.
And I *love* her way of relating to her 'Dad' as a soldier. That's a recurring now (Martha, Jenny, turn them into soldiers) so hello Time War. And I adore the way the Doctor tries to cure her of it.
Okay, this the thing - war should be a horror. People should have reactions of woe. Dead should mean something important. But at what point does Jenny demonstrate any understanding of any of that? Nowhere, because she's new and not figured it out yet. And while that's perfectly logical, it makes the whole thing seem unreal. They're playing at war. I thought the twist would be something like it's a rat maze. Otherwise the thing with the secret passages doesn't make any sense.
There should have been horror in there but it seems like it's up to the audience to understand. So many generations in a week? The death toll must be appalling! And, um, I hit the sciencey questions about where did they get food when they're all soldiers and there seem to be quite a lot of them and did they just pop out of machines and die before lunch? And if they're all 'born' Jenny age then how come the General is older? I could buy him being older and one of the original colonists, but older *and* with the chinese-whispers version of history?
PS not to call it chinese any more, minor ethnicity oddity in the phrasing, why not call it telephone:?
The thing is, with all that war and horror, and the masks and lack of talking, only two deaths 'felt' remotely real. One was the Hoth, and since we couldn't tell them apart or hear them talk it's hard to feel that. We could feel Martha's upset, but. And that Hoth was only dead because of Martha, because of saving Martha (is she developing a complex yet? a little vicious part of me hopes so...) But it didn't feel like war-dead.
So that leaves Jenny.
Now that felt real. Very, very real. And even though he's the guy who nearly died last week cause he had to give them a chance, here he's the guy who you can just for one second believe might pull the trigger. But he's the man who never would.
And with all the revelations about his attitude to family, that moment is really, seriously, earned.
... and then Jenny gets up as bouncy as ever.
*that* feels cheap.
The mystery, the resolution, the emotional arc - everything up until Jenny sits up again felt right, albeit bloody stupid in other ways because instant doomed kid? Urgh with the extra toppings, that's the most obvious angst wrencher ever. So, you know, again with the vaguely cheap. But I could have gone with it...
... I think if she had just regenerated.
Because otherwise? It doesn't work like that.
Or, "too much like me" suggests the Doctor could just die and wake up himself again. Which isn't how he works.
I can't figure out why this doesn't work for me when the whole thing in parts and pieces seems so shiny. I think it's just that one last lack of change. Can I really be that put off by that one thing???
I know... if she regenerated amnesiac, so he has a daughter who doesn't know him any more and has to start over, then that's a loss all round. With potential for reminders later. The culture would have learned from him, but she'd only know him from stories. A bit like Rose and her dad. As it is... she still only knows him from this one story and some hearsay from Donna. And really, if all she's got is the soldier program and please to not be killing anyone, what's her idea of saving planets anyway??? So she's a bit worrying.
So I reckon that would de-cheap the story for me, if she had to regenerate and forget, a bit like 8, who after all was the one who regenerated in the manner most like she did.
Having her keep the same face and everything makes... all the Doctor's feelings be roughly equivalent to the big speech he gave Donna when he thought she was leaving, and how's that for cheapening the moment?
So that's why I am having trouble with this story. It earned all it's angst, albeit with a sledgehammer, and then it pasted on an ending nobody else in the 'verse could get, instead of using a perfectly serviceable ending already available.
And having her regenerate would, really, only lose them the actress. So did they screw the ending because they like the actress? Meh.
She's one of the guests at Bad Wolf. Along with her dad, the Doctor. 5, that is.
... so maybe I should be clear, I'm not being blah at her acting, she made perfect sense for Jenny, I just... aren't ready to follow the story around that corner and keep all those angst points.
:-/
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And Another Thing
Date: 2008-05-10 08:08 pm (UTC)Donna reckons she'd like to see the Doctor try that? Really?
Using sex as a tool, that's what she'd like from him?
It's Jack's least appealing feature. When he did it, it's skeezy. When Jenny does it?
Well of course she's going to see 'pretty' as a weapon, she sees *everything* as a weapon, so it's perfectly in character... as far as it goes. It rather relies on humans being made with instant sexuality. When they've got those machines instead of sex, right? And they want them fighting all the time? So... why does it work? Why do they still have those relationships? Because humans are hardwired? Really? Instantly and without culture to tell them to try kissings?
... and why on earth would a soldier think 'kiss' and not 'bite'?
Well, not on Earth obviously.
Then there's the genetics thing. Jenny being the best soldier of her generation I can well believe... because the others have all been generated from a single set of genes, and isn't the word for that inbreeding??? Unless they're introducing another set from a previous sample, they're just mixing up the donor's genes with their own selves. That's as close in as can be. Any bad recessives would double up all over the shop.
And what's with the gender balance? Guys can make XX and XY offspring, but 1/4 of a random combination would be YY and not work, yesno? But women could only make XX, and they could have just as many offspring per generation. So if they start out gender balanced wouldn't it unbalance towards XX? Only if twere a random process though, which it can't be.
... they have an actual excuse for 'planet of the women' and they didn't use it.
... were there any women except for the Doctor's lot?
Not in speaking roles.
ANYway
of that, the stuff that bothers me is setting up a character with the eyeliner and mascara and sex as a weapon... oh, dear, I just discovered a why for a machine optimised for war to bother with makeup. Only then everyone else should be extra pretty too. And their makeup must wear off awful fast if they've been there 7 days and they're that dirty already.
As a feminist icon then Jenny... hmm, actually, she's made entirely from a man, in a male dominated culture. Patriarchy woman! Only with arse kicking.
She's very post-Buffy but ought to be post-Farscape too.
/random
plus there's the thing where
Date: 2008-05-10 08:22 pm (UTC)But the thing that bothered me was, usually? There's someone that joins the Doctor against the senseless war. And there was one each this time, one Hoth for Martha and one human for the Doctor. But, and this is in fact important, Martha's Hoth died to save her and we never got properly introduced anyway... and the Doctor's ally was made by and from and of him.
Because part of the point of the Doctor is, his Companions are just found places, all the places, everywhere. Everywhere he goes there's someone that could be his Companion. And the Companions graduate to being the Doctor, which Martha was doing in this one, sort of. Which is the only point of Martha's plot, to do what he did but without him, to show what graduate Companions can achieve. But the idea that on this world they *need* the Doctor because nobody there can think differently... that's... it just bugs me. It's the aristocracy theory, for one thing. Superior genes turned into superior morals. There *needed* to be someone born of that machine who could listen to the Doctor, because otherwise we have a non-democratic story.
... that's exactly why the womanly wiles bit was wrong. That, with the cell and the guard, is where the Doctor talks him into pacifism, or at most where Jenny does. Or where he talks *someone* into it. To helping them. At all.
As is? Hoth help... and die. Jenny helps... and dies. The stated message is a bit trashed by the plot, really.
The Doctor telling them what to base their society on... that is a bit out of character maybe, someone said he tells people to look inside and find the better them, but it's also very 'higher authority = me' and about how you tell your kids what to do and stuff. So, yeah, maybe.
But the big problem is none of them got persuaded by reason and logic and stuff like that, they just had their end-war conditions provided and therefore stopped fighting. That's like claiming a big pacifist victory when the other guys can say Mission Accomplished. Don't really work.
Also? If all it needed was them to smash the glass? Them going in there and fighting would probably have done that.
I think we needed some Doctor tech magic to release it properly. Otherwise you have an image very much like the triumph of violence.
It's like someone nailed all the stuff with the Dad-shock and the grief, and even a lot of the talking about soldier stuff, and didn't know how to plot it into the metaphor and make it Doctor Who properly.
I don't know.
All the bits were shiny, it just... meh.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-10 11:28 pm (UTC)Right, let's see. Differences in regeneration could be equated to just be differences in production techniques - given that the Doctor's AND the Master's latest regenerations were the same, I'm going with the last type being retconned in so that all of them were retroactively like that. The Watcher thing is still an anomaly, but it was a particularly traumatic regeneration. Seven to Eight - yes, regeneration happens when you're already dead, it seems.
Let's see... with the Master, I think it's an automatic process UNLESS you're deliberately supressing it otherwise. So under any other circumstance, the Master would regenerate, but he was deliberately stopping the process. Jenny wasn't stopping ANYTHING, so I can buy that.
Now, Jenny! I don't think that was a regeneration. I think that maybe she wasn't completely and totally dead, and just that little wisp of artron energy she got off the Doctor was enough to revive her. It wasn't a full regeneration - I don't know if she CAN regenerate - but it was enough to keep her alive.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 03:38 pm (UTC)Not that it means she isn't capable of it, just that it's not what happened this time.
If she had regenerated, she would have changed appearance (and the writers could have easily put in something trivial like changing just her hair color.)
no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 09:43 pm (UTC)