Plot detangled

[beccaelizabeth]

I solved the murder mystery component of a plot I've been attempting to wrangle.
It's a bit frustrating, the time between knowing what the murder scene looks like and only as much as your detective knows, and figuring it out. It's a bit difficult to write so much as the next scene, with only those parts. Now I know.
... I feel all accomplished and stuff, yet I've not set pen to paper for the actual writing of this.

Also, when I say 'solved', I mean I know the how and why of things. I haven't named the characters or described them or anything useful like that.

Poll #5828 The naming of things

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 7

View Respondents

If I name a character Captain Jack, is that

View Answers

obviously a rip off of Torchwood AND Pirates of the Caribbean AND Master and Commander AND many folktales and songs all at once
2 (28.6%)

Pretty generic, since all those others have already used it
5 (71.4%)

If that Captain Jack has a flexible relationship to mortality, does that change things?

View Answers

Yes, he's clearly Torchwood AND Pirates
4 (57.1%)

No, there's still several of them, it's still just a fairytale name
3 (42.9%)

If that Captain Jack has multiple copies, does that change things?

View Answers

See, now you're just down to Pirates, that's cheeky
2 (28.6%)

Nothing wrong with ripping the good bits from Pirates to completely new contexts
3 (42.9%)

Don't worry, nobody will notice
2 (28.6%)

If I have a mix of characters from various fandoms yet am not writing a fanfic crossover, do I need to rename them all to file the serial numbers off?

View Answers

Yes, people are going to notice if you have one from Star Trek, one from SG1, some Doctor Who, a splash of B5, and...
5 (71.4%)

No, they're stirred together so much nobody will notice
0 (0.0%)

As long as the surnames change they're not the same anyway
2 (28.6%)

The way I figure it is, if I take a bunch of characters from fandoms that would never meet, throw them at each other, in a setting that is a whole new 'verse (even if it do use familiar tropes like stargates and psi, it remixes those too), and don't worry about keeping them 'in character' compared to the television versions but just let them be the people in my head, I'm not in fact writing fanfic. I wouldn't call it original, but there's a grand shortage of originality in a great many stories and they worked out okay. (I am not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was a bold one for ripping and remixing sources.)

The only part I'm at all concerned about is if I'm going to have to rename people once I'm done. Already it would be difficult to rename Captain Jack. I'd have to rename the Ground Assault Command as well. And I still need a name for the sort of pilots that go from planets to Fleet ships in deep space and zoom around doing dogfights. They're not the air force on account of not always being in air. If I start trying to work in Vacuum and Ground I can get some really unfortunate acronyms.

Comments

[kickair8p]

IMHO disclaimer, but . . .

" The way I figure it is, if I take a bunch of characters from fandoms that would never meet, throw them at each other, in a setting that is a whole new 'verse (even if it do use familiar tropes like stargates and psi, it remixes those too), and don't worry about keeping them 'in character' compared to the television versions but just let them be the people in my head, I'm not in fact writing fanfic."

Hmmmm, if the characters have their original names then I'd call that an OOC crossover, but it's still fanfic. File the serial numbers off and you've crossed the line and it's original fic. If you're not selling this you could probably just rename the characters to hit your "original fic" mark.

The name "Captain Jack" is difficult -- it's generic so it's been used a lot, but the things it's been used in resonate powerfully for your readers. Add in things like immortality and/or multiple copies and it gets worse. A different last name would help, but you might wanna go with something like Captain Zack instead.

~

[beccaelizabeth]

but a Zack is not generic. If what you wanted was the multiple copy generic feel, is actually difficult to find a name.

I was keeping first names and switching last names, mostly, but this may need some tweaking to get that not-a-fanfic feel.

[philippos42]

Is he in your Aerospace Force? He could be Major Tom, and THAT would be a homage.

(Note: "Aerospace Force." My hometown has various vendors for NASA & military contractors. I notice that that whole industry, from Navy helos to space shuttles, does get lumped together as "aerospace." I still like "Spacy" for a space navy, but that might sound too silly.)

possibly too wry

[philippos42]

I've seen both Tom & Jack as surnames. In fact, you could name him Tom Jack or Jack Tom, have him start as a Captain, be promoted at some point to Major--and let him acknowledge at one point his pop-culture referenceness.

Re: possibly too wry

[beccaelizabeth]

The trouble with 'Tom' is that I'm never, ever, naming a character after my dad. He can stay out of it.

Also, it's based on Commonwealth ranks, which are based on the RAF, which means no Majors as pilots. And Captain is higher than Major.
... this is why I'm rewiring the ranks to only have one sort of Captain.

other than that, amusing.

Re: possibly too wry

[beccaelizabeth]

Ah: Reusable Aerospace Force
RAF in space
clearly a winner

[ceruleancat]

I couldn't reply to the poll, because I found the replies too limiting.
So, I'm putting my responses here, with a bit of leeway.
a. I think Captain Jack is too generic.
My first association is an Israeli song
but wiki offers other options as well, and I'm sure there are many more.
That said, you need to think of your audience's expectations and reactions, so if you're aiming for a ficcing crowd, yes, they'd probably think of fandom associations. The general mainstream audience might not so much.

b. re mortality and copies, I don't know either fandom, so I don't know to what extent the name and these particular characteristics are central to identification. But yes, if you take central features, more of your audience will identify a specific character. If the characteristics are sufficiently central, they'd evoke the character regardless of name.

What do you mean by 'not writing a fanfic crossover'? If they're fandom characters and you mix them, it's a fanfic AU xover regardless of what context you put them into or how OOC they are. The verse can be your own original creation, but your characters are derivative. You could rename, but there's a lot more to a character that is identifiable beyond its name, and then there's a whole lot of concepts and terms that come from the fandom of origin. But if it's a new verse, they're OOC enough to be Original Characters and have different names - well then where is the connection to the fandom characters? If you're not publishing, what's wrong with an AU xover anyway?
By the way, for some writers, changing the name of a character alters their behaviour and feel to the extent it's someone else. This may either help or hinder your writing.

[beccaelizabeth]

AU OOC xover: the trouble with that is Out Of Character fanfic is bad. I do not wish to write bad fanfic. I just want to write something (by this point anything) involving the people that hang out in my head. Most of those started out as fandom characters, but by now they've been living in there long enough they've evolved some. So they're either OOC, or they're a bunch of people that happen to be called Jack, Adam, Amanda, Malcolm, Owen, Daniel, Julian, Susan. And there's a bunch of characters that aren't from fandom at all, so the Original Character ratio would be high even if I was actively trying to write an xover.

I think I'm stuck with Jack as a type name for a certain kind of adventurous.
But it is the current most popular male name so there being a lot of them makes sense.

[baronjanus]

Way I see it, if it's just Jack the Adventurer, then it's clear, it's alright to use, and the same goes for all the others; but if it's Jack who uses the gadgets we're all familiar with, and the speech pattern is the same, and the in-world references are very similar, *then* there's a problem. *But*. It's entirely my opinion on that, and maybe Cat's too, but it's very much not a general public thing. The general public won't know these fannish people, and wouldn't recognise a fanon speech pattern if it spat them in the face and used only catch phrases.

So, to answer the first dilemma from my own pov... If *you* can recognise your new Jack as "looks exactly like, sounds exactly like", then you should probably admit to fanfic, but if it's just an adventurer, happy-go-lucky, sexually-open guy who happens to be a captain and happens to be called Jack, then the way I see it, there's enough of them to allow it to be considered original.

I hope I managed to convey ideas with these words. It's a little complex maybe.

[ceruleancat]

I don't mean ooc as bad fanfic, but rather, "ooc" as a personality different enough to mark an entirely different person, to the point of original character.
Like Adam said, do you think of them as the source characters? Do they have the speech patterns, the mannerisms, the thought process of the source characters, their background history and motivations? If so, you're still doing fanfic. Even if it is a whole original universe and a xover AU.
And again, think of the audience. A general audience won't notice these features, but a fandom audience is likely to recognise characters based on these features even with another name.
Ultimately, I think it matters less, if you're not going for publishing. If it's well-written and the characters are round and mesh well together, it doesn't matter. Maybe warn readers that some of your characters are loosely based on or derivative.