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beccaelizabethFantasy races and aging gets so weird.
Like, I can imagine the living longer or shorter. Humans do that anyway. Some people are frail before they retire, some of them have to be told that pulling up tree stumps is ambitious age 90.
So even elves not hitting middle age until 175 is understandable.
... worrying, because in Pathfinder aging has built in Wisdom bonuses, so it's pretty clear they act like humans in their twenties that whole time, but understandable, especially since some humans certainly aspire to do that too.
The weird bit though is different ages of adulthood.
I mean, it doesn't say in the first rulebook what all they even mean, but if they're just maturing at a smooth and even rate, and they're not going to be an adult until 110...
*blinks so much*
I mean I'm pretty sure that's what the rules meant, because the characters in the Pathfinder audio talked about being street kids that whole time and watching your friends age to death before you even grow up
but
that means
they are infants for how long?
I mean compare human to half elf and it's simples, 20 is an adult half elf and 15 an adult human (and wow that's a tough sell of an idea, but it makes new adeventurers start at 16, and yeah, okay, that is when several sorts of humans start making their way in the world).
A half elf kid would just seem small and slow, unless they were growing in to some stellar stats, then they'd just seem small and emotionally immature.
But an elf age 15 is proportionally equivalent to a two year old. Two! They start being able to walk age when???
Elf babies aren't just 'a bit slow' if they do that, they're equivalent to someone very disabled, like they'd need 24 hour care at an age humans are adults, and supervision much, much longer.
Are elves just walking around carrying their infant offspring for a decade?
No wonder they can't have many kids, they've got such a high level of support to give the first one.
And like, adult at 110, dying of old age starting at 354, but middle aged at 175. Do elves have a menopause? Are elves wandering around worried about their biological clock ticking as their fertile years wind down, when each elf child is a decades long time investment?
OMG, how long is elf pregnancy???
... I don't think I need to think about that.
... but like, imagine an elf who shagged a human and got pregnant and they don't start showing for a year and a half and by the time the baby arrives the human is like lol nope, can't be mine, haven't seen you for years...
And like a half elf kid has many advantages like actually maturing five times as fast, but they could be dead around 128, ie the elf equivalent of college years.
I guess if I think of illness and disability I can imagine all that, it's just the idea they'll eventually grow out of their delayed development and have a whole race that considers them normal that takes some imagination.
... huh, parents insisting their little angels aren't disabled, they're just another race... like changeling stories but as a way to hope for better things...
Why I sat down to write though was the idea you could have a mixed race pairing or team meet in juvie and they could be any age from about to age out at 14 to still there for years yet 104.
And yet, by the logic of fantasy race aging, all somehow equivalent.
How do they learn, though? At different rates? What about listening to stories, or reading books?
... Doctor Who having lasted 55 years means it is only just long enough for half an elf childhood.
No, seriously, would an elf have read everything in the 20th century as it came out, or would they need stories to be much more sesame street for much, much, longer and just not keep up?
I realise these are answers the author makes up, but I'm just trying to imagine...
... Legolas wants to hear Where's My Cow once again, for at least the tenth year...
... I mean elves still need to sleep every night, right? So, how many bedtime stories does an elf baby need?
Now I'm imagining an entire race that is in maturity known for their art and wisdom (ha) but to start with they spent most of a century watching stories like my brother, again again again...
*blinks a lot*
I think I'll go back to half orc Mick meeting half elf Len in juvie. At 14 Mick would be huge, so much more mature than same age mates, but then the others keep maturing fast where he's pretty much set for adulthood...
... why angst today? ah well...
Like, I can imagine the living longer or shorter. Humans do that anyway. Some people are frail before they retire, some of them have to be told that pulling up tree stumps is ambitious age 90.
So even elves not hitting middle age until 175 is understandable.
... worrying, because in Pathfinder aging has built in Wisdom bonuses, so it's pretty clear they act like humans in their twenties that whole time, but understandable, especially since some humans certainly aspire to do that too.
The weird bit though is different ages of adulthood.
I mean, it doesn't say in the first rulebook what all they even mean, but if they're just maturing at a smooth and even rate, and they're not going to be an adult until 110...
*blinks so much*
I mean I'm pretty sure that's what the rules meant, because the characters in the Pathfinder audio talked about being street kids that whole time and watching your friends age to death before you even grow up
but
that means
they are infants for how long?
I mean compare human to half elf and it's simples, 20 is an adult half elf and 15 an adult human (and wow that's a tough sell of an idea, but it makes new adeventurers start at 16, and yeah, okay, that is when several sorts of humans start making their way in the world).
A half elf kid would just seem small and slow, unless they were growing in to some stellar stats, then they'd just seem small and emotionally immature.
But an elf age 15 is proportionally equivalent to a two year old. Two! They start being able to walk age when???
Elf babies aren't just 'a bit slow' if they do that, they're equivalent to someone very disabled, like they'd need 24 hour care at an age humans are adults, and supervision much, much longer.
Are elves just walking around carrying their infant offspring for a decade?
No wonder they can't have many kids, they've got such a high level of support to give the first one.
And like, adult at 110, dying of old age starting at 354, but middle aged at 175. Do elves have a menopause? Are elves wandering around worried about their biological clock ticking as their fertile years wind down, when each elf child is a decades long time investment?
OMG, how long is elf pregnancy???
... I don't think I need to think about that.
... but like, imagine an elf who shagged a human and got pregnant and they don't start showing for a year and a half and by the time the baby arrives the human is like lol nope, can't be mine, haven't seen you for years...
And like a half elf kid has many advantages like actually maturing five times as fast, but they could be dead around 128, ie the elf equivalent of college years.
I guess if I think of illness and disability I can imagine all that, it's just the idea they'll eventually grow out of their delayed development and have a whole race that considers them normal that takes some imagination.
... huh, parents insisting their little angels aren't disabled, they're just another race... like changeling stories but as a way to hope for better things...
Why I sat down to write though was the idea you could have a mixed race pairing or team meet in juvie and they could be any age from about to age out at 14 to still there for years yet 104.
And yet, by the logic of fantasy race aging, all somehow equivalent.
How do they learn, though? At different rates? What about listening to stories, or reading books?
... Doctor Who having lasted 55 years means it is only just long enough for half an elf childhood.
No, seriously, would an elf have read everything in the 20th century as it came out, or would they need stories to be much more sesame street for much, much, longer and just not keep up?
I realise these are answers the author makes up, but I'm just trying to imagine...
... Legolas wants to hear Where's My Cow once again, for at least the tenth year...
... I mean elves still need to sleep every night, right? So, how many bedtime stories does an elf baby need?
Now I'm imagining an entire race that is in maturity known for their art and wisdom (ha) but to start with they spent most of a century watching stories like my brother, again again again...
*blinks a lot*
I think I'll go back to half orc Mick meeting half elf Len in juvie. At 14 Mick would be huge, so much more mature than same age mates, but then the others keep maturing fast where he's pretty much set for adulthood...
... why angst today? ah well...
no subject
Date: 2018-11-26 03:07 am (UTC)Only then you have 'looks mature for her age' with all the Unfortunate Implications.
Like one thread went to abuse and sex slavery in a handful of comments.
and this is a different angle on the Forlorn - like they're really tall ten year olds being treated like adults.
but this loops back around to disability rights discourse REALLY fast. I mean, without defining emotionally or intellectually mature, which bits are Unfortunate? There's laws about consent already for people who look more capable than they are. Some of that ought to play in to this.
no subject
Date: 2018-11-28 06:51 pm (UTC)Also "half orc Mick meeting half elf Len in juvie" sounds great.
no subject
Date: 2018-11-29 08:47 am (UTC)But after Highlander Immortals I'm not fussed with the problems of the long lived been there done that adventurer? Like, okay, they can learn new things and probably have been for centuries, but their day to day problems are still a problem for them.
Mick and Len would highlight different aspects of themselves that way. And there's obviously magic items out there for when they get their Names. And their heists could be so much more epic if there's like dragon hoards or undead guarding the treasures. Also, way more respectable. If Rogues are Adventurers then there's all sorts of places they can use those skills and still end up being called heroes. ... which Len would not be keen on. But Mick canonically seems to be growing in to...
no subject
Date: 2018-11-29 09:52 am (UTC)Why half-orc and half-elf? Why not orc and elf? And then you get some built-in racist environment because why are these two friends in the first place. Against all odds. Or just odd.
Why does long lived have to equal much learned? Book studies depend very much on lifestyle and opportunities, access. Can live very long and be held back. And actual learning from real life and mistakes very much, I find, depends on personality. Which is how you get (in rl humans) wise people at 14 and complete idiots at 65.
The idea of the respectability of thieves I find myself really liking. Because: in a world where "Stealing and killing" is much respected, Len might not have a problem with being called a hero, considering what heroes are in that world. The question is what he likes better, to be a thief, or to be a not-hero. That may inform his life choices, the difference in social acceptability.
no subject
Date: 2018-11-29 11:21 pm (UTC)Half orc means choices.
Half elf rather than elf I got to starting with Calistria, a popular choice for Elves to worship, goddess of lust and revenge. Her temples have sacred prostitutes and I was wondering what kind of characters you'd get with that background. Thought of Len and Lisa Snart, no mothers in their stories, one father so mean you wonder how he managed to get kids. Make her an elf priestess who left her kids with their father for what seems like a little while to an elf, she can come back later and be interesting.
Not sure of that background, maybe mixes poorly with religious background now made canon in comics.
Not keen on Pathfinder gods in general, hence forming vague plan to become one.
An elf would also not change much over an orc's entire lifespan, which seemed unhelpful. If they meet while Len is juvenile he'd stay juvenile, or be a century older to begin with. I want them closer to even.
long lived don't necessarily mean learned, not everyone is gaining xp, but I'm used to GURPS where even routine repetition at a job adds up to skill points eventually.
In Pathfinder Wisdom bonuses come with ageing for everyone, just at different intervals for different races. If time is going to be wisdom, being so uneven requires longer lived races to think and learn differently than shorter lived, but only for this one game mechanic.
*nods* respectable rogue as a socially available framework do open up the options.
seems to me that canon Len who can look at his first metahuman and decide he needs to up his game, and therefore play this game despit obvious differences in ability, is someone who would look at the relative challenge rating of stealing from humans vs dungeoneering and sign up for a nice gnarly dungeon. Why fight humans when there's undead to be eluded? and humans think differently of grave robbers when it necessarily involves putting the undead back in the graves.
no subject
Date: 2018-11-30 12:11 am (UTC)...Actually now idly musing about immortal or long-lived (like elf) hanging out with undead (which technically can "live" forever as well, not changing much over years). Not like "hot vampire", more ghoul or zombie or something. Just hanging out in graveyards.
found the age rules
Date: 2018-11-29 09:53 am (UTC)well, youth rules. youth is 8 for human, 10 for half elf, 7 for half orc, and 55 for elf. yes 55 is functionally 8.
+2 higher dex, -2 lower str con and wis, int cha same but inexperience shows as skills at 1st lvl if i understand right, npc classes only. only 1 trait.
can Retrain class as soon as adult.
npc classes are weaker and bring party level down.
Re: found the age rules
Date: 2018-11-30 12:12 am (UTC)how many years to adult elves have to change diapers
I am horrified by the implications
Re: found the age rules
Date: 2018-11-30 03:16 am (UTC)although, if I think of it the other way around, elves would make excellent carers because they'd be like
oh a perfectly normal baby
maybe a bit tall
but this is a perfectly normal length of time to do looking after someone
... aaaand now I'm having changeling notions from the other side...
Re: found the age rules
Date: 2018-11-30 03:52 am (UTC)What you said though made me think about elves working in human nurseries or other care facilities. Just "forty years changing diapers, aren't you tired of it?!" "nah it's like one baby timeline for me"
Also their political game must be much more long con than ours... considering human politicians sometimes ruin everything for a two-month gain, I mean
But yeah, elves going "what do you mean he's 18 and gets to drive. that's an embryo basically" and humans going "he's 50 and still lives at home" and so on