The Flash, Frost and Snow
Jul. 6th, 2022 08:37 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethI have been watching the Flash
(yes I know I attempted to rage quit. I'm never any good at that. i watched more.)
Snow and Frost became two people in two bodies, and now Frost turned herself in and pled guilty to the crimes Frost actually committed back when.
... except that's not the story I've seen in what they've shown us?
That isn't how multiple personalities work.
Snow and Frost were aspects of one person, and now there are two bodies who each identify as one aspect.
But they haven't presented any reason to perceive it as Frost getting her own body, rather than two new beings being created from the existing one. They had a headache and woke up as two people. Doesnt mean they were one original and a copy.
And they could have gone back together using Firestorm tech, though that in itself anniyed me because no, that's not the made up science they made up in the first season, but whatever.
Presenting Frost as guilty of those crimes, and as *solely* guilty, means saying that Frost was always a separate person who just was inconvenienced on the body front, and asserting that Caitlin had nothing to do with it.
Which seems like a dangerous legal precedent.
In a 'verse where there are multiple ways to make multiples of people.
I think from everything we've seen
either both Caitlin and Frost were guilty of crimes they did while they were aspects of one person
or
there are two new people now, and neither of them did those things, they were simply created from the person who did.
It's not like cloning and memory duplication are possible here now
so they're just telling a story
but it's a weird story?
Like, look at Snow, all innocent, only her own rage did a crime?
I'm... not sure where they're going with this
except they think they have all along been telling a story with two people
and that's... well, that's up to them, I guess, just...
I didn't think that was the story.
Also I keep thinking about other 'verses and the similar but not quite same things happened there. Jack O'Neill, for instance. Are he and his clone equally legally liable for things he did before he was cloned? Or is the clone an entirely new legal entity?
Or the two Rikers. Or that time he got cloned and killed his other self. Or... lots of SF scenarios that all play different when you throw in 'but what if a crime before they were copied' (or, but what if murdering his clone is still murder, like on DS9)
In our world it isn't going to come up... except as a specific reading on corporate malfeasance I guess... but cloning isn't here yet and memory duplication certainly isn't.
But in the SF worlds it's just... it seems like a dangerous precedent. Like, you could do this on purpose. Make a copy, have the copy plead guilty, go about your merry.
... make the copy, plead guilty on the copy's behalf, do a quick switch and go about your merry...
there just seem like a lot of angles where either outcome. both or neither guilty, has huge and unfortunate repercussions.
I have to say, aside from the legal fascinations of the setup, I was very surprised that the story arrived at 'but she actually did the crimes so the law says she should go to prison'. I mean, every other character was on team 'but you've changed', and one of them was straight up saying prison is hell that doesnt make you a better person, so the story seemed very... well honestly it seemed as it has since season one, where Joe asked what's the difference between us and them, and Barry said we're the good guys. Being a good guy has been their reason for doing any and everything, and it being somehow secretly okay. And that was frustrating! I spent the whole episode in my head being all 'but she did it' and was wildly surpised when Frost and the story apparently agreed with me.
... I expect the story will depict keeping her in prison as Wrong somehow, and get her out again, but at least they said it once?
So this bit of the story was interesting, but I am not hopeful for the show retaining my interest.
(yes I know I attempted to rage quit. I'm never any good at that. i watched more.)
Snow and Frost became two people in two bodies, and now Frost turned herself in and pled guilty to the crimes Frost actually committed back when.
... except that's not the story I've seen in what they've shown us?
That isn't how multiple personalities work.
Snow and Frost were aspects of one person, and now there are two bodies who each identify as one aspect.
But they haven't presented any reason to perceive it as Frost getting her own body, rather than two new beings being created from the existing one. They had a headache and woke up as two people. Doesnt mean they were one original and a copy.
And they could have gone back together using Firestorm tech, though that in itself anniyed me because no, that's not the made up science they made up in the first season, but whatever.
Presenting Frost as guilty of those crimes, and as *solely* guilty, means saying that Frost was always a separate person who just was inconvenienced on the body front, and asserting that Caitlin had nothing to do with it.
Which seems like a dangerous legal precedent.
In a 'verse where there are multiple ways to make multiples of people.
I think from everything we've seen
either both Caitlin and Frost were guilty of crimes they did while they were aspects of one person
or
there are two new people now, and neither of them did those things, they were simply created from the person who did.
It's not like cloning and memory duplication are possible here now
so they're just telling a story
but it's a weird story?
Like, look at Snow, all innocent, only her own rage did a crime?
I'm... not sure where they're going with this
except they think they have all along been telling a story with two people
and that's... well, that's up to them, I guess, just...
I didn't think that was the story.
Also I keep thinking about other 'verses and the similar but not quite same things happened there. Jack O'Neill, for instance. Are he and his clone equally legally liable for things he did before he was cloned? Or is the clone an entirely new legal entity?
Or the two Rikers. Or that time he got cloned and killed his other self. Or... lots of SF scenarios that all play different when you throw in 'but what if a crime before they were copied' (or, but what if murdering his clone is still murder, like on DS9)
In our world it isn't going to come up... except as a specific reading on corporate malfeasance I guess... but cloning isn't here yet and memory duplication certainly isn't.
But in the SF worlds it's just... it seems like a dangerous precedent. Like, you could do this on purpose. Make a copy, have the copy plead guilty, go about your merry.
... make the copy, plead guilty on the copy's behalf, do a quick switch and go about your merry...
there just seem like a lot of angles where either outcome. both or neither guilty, has huge and unfortunate repercussions.
I have to say, aside from the legal fascinations of the setup, I was very surprised that the story arrived at 'but she actually did the crimes so the law says she should go to prison'. I mean, every other character was on team 'but you've changed', and one of them was straight up saying prison is hell that doesnt make you a better person, so the story seemed very... well honestly it seemed as it has since season one, where Joe asked what's the difference between us and them, and Barry said we're the good guys. Being a good guy has been their reason for doing any and everything, and it being somehow secretly okay. And that was frustrating! I spent the whole episode in my head being all 'but she did it' and was wildly surpised when Frost and the story apparently agreed with me.
... I expect the story will depict keeping her in prison as Wrong somehow, and get her out again, but at least they said it once?
So this bit of the story was interesting, but I am not hopeful for the show retaining my interest.