Torchwood ep 4
Nov. 5th, 2006 11:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethThat was awesome.
Dark. VERY dark. All kinds of nasty there.
But, you know, the good way.
I... Have no coherent opinion on most of it. I'm kind of dead of squee. Or something related to squee, that sits there with mouth ajar.
That was *severely* good.
And they really did find something darker than Cyber conversion.
The only problem I had with it was right at the end there:
Jack said: "I felt so alive"
Be said: OH Fuck.
Some days you know somebody watched all the *wrong* episodes of Highlander.
He's not that fuckwit piano player! No death wish! For goodness sake, you'd think if *anyone* could see the shiny in immortality it would be a time traveller!
Okay, other things to say - Jack's leadership style vs the team's 'initiative'.
Nice bit at the start with the basketball. Actually you could tell from the start it would be about teamwork, intra team conflict, and rule breaking.
Jack is snapping orders like they're military, and yet he ought to know how very not they are.
He's all playing future boy omniscient, they never get a cure.
He's telling off Ianto for hiding himself from the team and yet they all were shocked when he 'died'.
And Ianto gets to be more spot on than he knows with his half of the argument.
Which is all pretty cool, as long as they go somewhere cool with it.
That repeated bit about "have you ever loved somebody that much" (that you can't live without them) is a bit... Okay, look, my view of what love is is that you love somebody enough you *can* live without them. Live forever even. Because you had love, and that fills you.
And up until this week Jack's personal shiny could be read that way.
But... I fear how relationships will work in this 'verse. Partly because I've heard what some writers have said outside the canon, that indicates they think Rose should be all weepy and trashed from splitting up with the Doctor and that somehow that is of the good.
Just... grow up, okay? Maybe someone who hasn't lived very long thinks Romeo and Juliet were the epitome of romance, but someone who has loved and lost a few times knows better.
... Come to think, I can't apply that description to me personally, so someone who has watched enough TV knows better too.
Ianto's reactions were excellent, skilled work and carefully executed. And he called Jack on his bullshit with a fair degree of precision. And his logic was impeccable - Torchwood exists to destroy aliens, therefore don't tell Torchwood.
But like I said, he's more right than he knows about Jack. By many local definitions Jack would be one of the things Torchwood study.
So you'd think Jack might have a different perspective.
But he knows what Cybermen will do, given the chance, and he can't allow it.
Jack's leadership style - he's assembled a group of people who's primary trait is curiousity. (Not paranoia. Is the old intelligence vs counterintelligence divide. This lot are more intelligence types.)
Second thing is innovation, thinking outside the box.
So how does he lead them in a crisis?
By the numbers, snaps orders, doesn't take the time to explain.
Yeah, predictably a big fucking problem.
Was always my biggest problem with Duncan MacLeod actually, his tendency to give orders. Only with him it was worse, because he didn't have any such authority.
Jack we already know does this. Doctor had to point out the not-the-boss-ness of him.
So it is consistent, yet works out badly.
ETA: to answer my own criticism, we can see why he does it, in the time critical sequence with Gwen. I mean, in a purely logical world or with a fully functional cyber conversion unit Gwen would have been *dead* while Tosh asked him if he was sure. Sometimes now is the only time you have, and orders have to be reated to *fast*. Combat time is on a different scale to investigation time, and Jack can do both. But some of his team aren't so good at it.
And he couldn't be expected to anticipate Tosh using her initiative - I mean, there's purely billions of things she could do. He gave her orders about what was necessary, he couldn't exactly guess about what she might do outside that.
But... "And don't unlock anything" or "And do nothing else" wouldn't have taken very much extra time...
/ETA
Owen and Gwen in the locker... Okay, first of all, props didn't quite justify the action - there was nothing in the other lockers. They could have had a locker each. (Unless I missed something).
Second of all, predictable yet effectively done.
Third of all "bit embarrassing now we didn't die" :-)
ETA2: As has been remarked elsewhere, the actor is very good, but Owen is still a twat and a rapist. Thing of it is, his actions here are entirely consistent. He's expressed interest in Gwen in a very aggressive way before. Sex+death, 'joke' in ep 2. Further joke about messing up people in happy relationships. No surprise at all that he'd try something here.
I'll only hate it if they have it work out well. If it all goes to hell it is entirely consistent.
/ETA2
Jack 'kissing' Ianto... It bugs me actually for reasons outside this text. Looked a bit like CPR, like kiss of life, more than romance. Intercut with the Gwen/Owen thing it makes a clear kissing=life sort of statement, which is a nice counter to the sex=death you could also pick up from the episodes thus far.
Trouble is... There's this moment in a Stargate episode where a guy needs CPR and there's only guys around him to do it, and they make it into a comedy moment that the guys have extreme reluctance.
Which winds me the hell up, because *CPR*. NECESSARY. *Not* romantic, *not* sexual, and *never* to be hesitated about.
... Not that I'd meet my own standard on that one, because of my issues with touching, but I'm mentally ill, I tend to think the rest of the world does better than me.
But media representations... Why did Jack not do CPR on Daniel that time he flatlined? Because guys don't kiss.
And on Torchwood guys do kiss, so that works out.
BUT it strengthens the association that makes the reluctance in the first place, so... I worry, basically.
ANYway, that's kind of being annoyed at stuff that isn't Torchwood.
I really need to watch this again. Soon. Because very very good. But also because I'm sure I'm missing stuff.
The subtext was pretty well laid out in the text though.
Oh, one other thing the props department screwed - the door unlocker was the book reader. Or looked a hell of a lot like it, to my mind. That made Tosh asking what it was and the specific use of it look a bit weird.
A different thing, the way the team were dealing with the action... It had me yelling at the screen sometimes, because for an elite team they were acting like total pillocks. Someone dies to buy you time, you *use the fucking time, morons!* Yes, the moment loses that dramatic reaction shot, but for goodness sake, he's twitching and possibly *dead* to get you your extra seconds, you damn well use them *fast*!
So that wound me up.
And also Tosh leaning against the door.
I mean, it looked like metal, therefore conductive, and the cybers electrocute. Also, we got the dramatic fist through the grill bit, which even I could predict. She should have been running. Like I said, he's dead to buy *seconds*, every time they waste seconds they waste his life.
Yes I know he came back, but that's still hard bought.
Jack's plan was awesome.
And Pterodactyl vs Cyberwoman was awesome.
And the fact that stuff from the website (the special sauce for feeding the dinosaur) played into the episode was pretty damn cool too.
Jack's wrist thingy is very versatile. Seems able to control technology he's standing near. Cyber conversion unit, and before that the inflatable cell. So what are the limits?
Probably not defined so he can pull it out at useful moments.
Though to be fair it wasn't the magic solution, just shortcut.
The one thing that doesn't play though - that magic gizmo that unlocks anything?
*WHY DID THEY NOT USE IT TO GET THE GUNS*
???
???
???
Was the Cyberwoman between them and the guns? Then the plan involves lure her away first.
Were the guns locked extra tight? Secured specifically against that gadget? Mention it?
I loved that the pizza delivery paid off again. I mean, a bit unfair on the poor delivery girl, but a lovely bit of continuity.
Basically the episode was really great at using available parts to make plot.
Which is why the not getting the guns bugs me specially.
ETA3: Ianto salvaged someone from Torchwood 1. Was he himself salvaged from there? I mean, on the one hand, he hid stuff in the basement there, must have been familiar with the systems and such, and the idea of where else he hid her first is somewhat mind boggling. But how he got her from T1 to T3 in the first place is the same scale of challenge. And all those bits of cybertech too.
But I want to know when he started working there. Was he dating someone from the other office, and happened to be visiting? A bit like that nearly couple we saw in the DW ep. Actually, very like.
But then he'd have been working TW3 already.
Were they in the same office, both TW1, and Jack picked up Ianto after the disaster?
Because that puts a whole different spin both on him being secure archive guy and him being receptionist guy, because at the same time he has the most trusted and the most outside position right there. And from the website I figured he was who watched the watchers (and we saw here that meant no one was watching him in turn, to their great cost). So if he was working for TW*1* but *at* TW3... Well, that would be one set of power relations. Or just if he reported to TW1.
He has this interesting insider/outsider thing implied right there, is what I'm thinking.
And maybe Jack yelled at him about it, but Ianto was pissed that he'd never asked, so.
Jack just a bit isolated? But... he was down the pub with the team. And, yeah, pub talk anecdotes aren't exactly the same as quiet chats, but... I don't know. That one scene made it seem like Jack is connected to the team. But Ianto had stayed behind, and apart, on purpose. He wasn't playing their game. He had his own secrets.
So is that personal, or is it tied to some power structure thing?
... Well obviously intensely personal. So I'm wondering if 'and'.
Basically I'm wondering how much Torchwood 1 knew about Jack and how much he's running his own independent fiefdom.
But there's personal stuff with Ianto and Jack too.
I mean, if you read it with a slashy eye, it can look like Jack is in love with Ianto and Ianto hasn't noticed yet. What with the kissing and the significant conversations about love answered only with silence.
There's all sorts of meanings can go in gaps.
/ETA3
Ianto confronting the girl with the big scar on her head... I look back on it and giggle a bit, because Halloween costume much? But at the time I was way too absorbed to giggle.
His total anguish... And not being able to pull the trigger.
Yeah.
"Upgrade together" was what set the team off.
So Ianto remains sympathetic but dangerously spun. I mean, so many ways to feel screwed up about what happened. Feeling responsible.
Two dead people. Both of them people Ianto invited in. He's got to feel like shit about that.
And whatever was left of Lisa... He probably feels responsible for allowing her to be screwed up enough she would do that. I'd spin it that way.
But he's the guy that's so totally loyal to the one he loves he messes up everything else. Classic stuff of tragedy. Not going to lose him any fans.
What it had to say about the nature of love was actually quite complicated. Screwed up all to hell and back, but complicated.
Okay, as I said, not entirely coherent yet.
But that was a very, very good episode.
When it started I was so tired I was feeling a vague sense of unreality (also a side effect of there being so much advertising for the thing - images get so familiar they feel like another ad.)
Now I'm thinking I'll stay up until the second showing.
... this is bad for my sleep cycle, yet very fun.
Also, in case I haven't said, I like the acting. Looks like good acting to me. People doing emotions and everything.
Dark. VERY dark. All kinds of nasty there.
But, you know, the good way.
I... Have no coherent opinion on most of it. I'm kind of dead of squee. Or something related to squee, that sits there with mouth ajar.
That was *severely* good.
And they really did find something darker than Cyber conversion.
The only problem I had with it was right at the end there:
Jack said: "I felt so alive"
Be said: OH Fuck.
Some days you know somebody watched all the *wrong* episodes of Highlander.
He's not that fuckwit piano player! No death wish! For goodness sake, you'd think if *anyone* could see the shiny in immortality it would be a time traveller!
Okay, other things to say - Jack's leadership style vs the team's 'initiative'.
Nice bit at the start with the basketball. Actually you could tell from the start it would be about teamwork, intra team conflict, and rule breaking.
Jack is snapping orders like they're military, and yet he ought to know how very not they are.
He's all playing future boy omniscient, they never get a cure.
He's telling off Ianto for hiding himself from the team and yet they all were shocked when he 'died'.
And Ianto gets to be more spot on than he knows with his half of the argument.
Which is all pretty cool, as long as they go somewhere cool with it.
That repeated bit about "have you ever loved somebody that much" (that you can't live without them) is a bit... Okay, look, my view of what love is is that you love somebody enough you *can* live without them. Live forever even. Because you had love, and that fills you.
And up until this week Jack's personal shiny could be read that way.
But... I fear how relationships will work in this 'verse. Partly because I've heard what some writers have said outside the canon, that indicates they think Rose should be all weepy and trashed from splitting up with the Doctor and that somehow that is of the good.
Just... grow up, okay? Maybe someone who hasn't lived very long thinks Romeo and Juliet were the epitome of romance, but someone who has loved and lost a few times knows better.
... Come to think, I can't apply that description to me personally, so someone who has watched enough TV knows better too.
Ianto's reactions were excellent, skilled work and carefully executed. And he called Jack on his bullshit with a fair degree of precision. And his logic was impeccable - Torchwood exists to destroy aliens, therefore don't tell Torchwood.
But like I said, he's more right than he knows about Jack. By many local definitions Jack would be one of the things Torchwood study.
So you'd think Jack might have a different perspective.
But he knows what Cybermen will do, given the chance, and he can't allow it.
Jack's leadership style - he's assembled a group of people who's primary trait is curiousity. (Not paranoia. Is the old intelligence vs counterintelligence divide. This lot are more intelligence types.)
Second thing is innovation, thinking outside the box.
So how does he lead them in a crisis?
By the numbers, snaps orders, doesn't take the time to explain.
Yeah, predictably a big fucking problem.
Was always my biggest problem with Duncan MacLeod actually, his tendency to give orders. Only with him it was worse, because he didn't have any such authority.
Jack we already know does this. Doctor had to point out the not-the-boss-ness of him.
So it is consistent, yet works out badly.
ETA: to answer my own criticism, we can see why he does it, in the time critical sequence with Gwen. I mean, in a purely logical world or with a fully functional cyber conversion unit Gwen would have been *dead* while Tosh asked him if he was sure. Sometimes now is the only time you have, and orders have to be reated to *fast*. Combat time is on a different scale to investigation time, and Jack can do both. But some of his team aren't so good at it.
And he couldn't be expected to anticipate Tosh using her initiative - I mean, there's purely billions of things she could do. He gave her orders about what was necessary, he couldn't exactly guess about what she might do outside that.
But... "And don't unlock anything" or "And do nothing else" wouldn't have taken very much extra time...
/ETA
Owen and Gwen in the locker... Okay, first of all, props didn't quite justify the action - there was nothing in the other lockers. They could have had a locker each. (Unless I missed something).
Second of all, predictable yet effectively done.
Third of all "bit embarrassing now we didn't die" :-)
ETA2: As has been remarked elsewhere, the actor is very good, but Owen is still a twat and a rapist. Thing of it is, his actions here are entirely consistent. He's expressed interest in Gwen in a very aggressive way before. Sex+death, 'joke' in ep 2. Further joke about messing up people in happy relationships. No surprise at all that he'd try something here.
I'll only hate it if they have it work out well. If it all goes to hell it is entirely consistent.
/ETA2
Jack 'kissing' Ianto... It bugs me actually for reasons outside this text. Looked a bit like CPR, like kiss of life, more than romance. Intercut with the Gwen/Owen thing it makes a clear kissing=life sort of statement, which is a nice counter to the sex=death you could also pick up from the episodes thus far.
Trouble is... There's this moment in a Stargate episode where a guy needs CPR and there's only guys around him to do it, and they make it into a comedy moment that the guys have extreme reluctance.
Which winds me the hell up, because *CPR*. NECESSARY. *Not* romantic, *not* sexual, and *never* to be hesitated about.
... Not that I'd meet my own standard on that one, because of my issues with touching, but I'm mentally ill, I tend to think the rest of the world does better than me.
But media representations... Why did Jack not do CPR on Daniel that time he flatlined? Because guys don't kiss.
And on Torchwood guys do kiss, so that works out.
BUT it strengthens the association that makes the reluctance in the first place, so... I worry, basically.
ANYway, that's kind of being annoyed at stuff that isn't Torchwood.
I really need to watch this again. Soon. Because very very good. But also because I'm sure I'm missing stuff.
The subtext was pretty well laid out in the text though.
Oh, one other thing the props department screwed - the door unlocker was the book reader. Or looked a hell of a lot like it, to my mind. That made Tosh asking what it was and the specific use of it look a bit weird.
A different thing, the way the team were dealing with the action... It had me yelling at the screen sometimes, because for an elite team they were acting like total pillocks. Someone dies to buy you time, you *use the fucking time, morons!* Yes, the moment loses that dramatic reaction shot, but for goodness sake, he's twitching and possibly *dead* to get you your extra seconds, you damn well use them *fast*!
So that wound me up.
And also Tosh leaning against the door.
I mean, it looked like metal, therefore conductive, and the cybers electrocute. Also, we got the dramatic fist through the grill bit, which even I could predict. She should have been running. Like I said, he's dead to buy *seconds*, every time they waste seconds they waste his life.
Yes I know he came back, but that's still hard bought.
Jack's plan was awesome.
And Pterodactyl vs Cyberwoman was awesome.
And the fact that stuff from the website (the special sauce for feeding the dinosaur) played into the episode was pretty damn cool too.
Jack's wrist thingy is very versatile. Seems able to control technology he's standing near. Cyber conversion unit, and before that the inflatable cell. So what are the limits?
Probably not defined so he can pull it out at useful moments.
Though to be fair it wasn't the magic solution, just shortcut.
The one thing that doesn't play though - that magic gizmo that unlocks anything?
*WHY DID THEY NOT USE IT TO GET THE GUNS*
???
???
???
Was the Cyberwoman between them and the guns? Then the plan involves lure her away first.
Were the guns locked extra tight? Secured specifically against that gadget? Mention it?
I loved that the pizza delivery paid off again. I mean, a bit unfair on the poor delivery girl, but a lovely bit of continuity.
Basically the episode was really great at using available parts to make plot.
Which is why the not getting the guns bugs me specially.
ETA3: Ianto salvaged someone from Torchwood 1. Was he himself salvaged from there? I mean, on the one hand, he hid stuff in the basement there, must have been familiar with the systems and such, and the idea of where else he hid her first is somewhat mind boggling. But how he got her from T1 to T3 in the first place is the same scale of challenge. And all those bits of cybertech too.
But I want to know when he started working there. Was he dating someone from the other office, and happened to be visiting? A bit like that nearly couple we saw in the DW ep. Actually, very like.
But then he'd have been working TW3 already.
Were they in the same office, both TW1, and Jack picked up Ianto after the disaster?
Because that puts a whole different spin both on him being secure archive guy and him being receptionist guy, because at the same time he has the most trusted and the most outside position right there. And from the website I figured he was who watched the watchers (and we saw here that meant no one was watching him in turn, to their great cost). So if he was working for TW*1* but *at* TW3... Well, that would be one set of power relations. Or just if he reported to TW1.
He has this interesting insider/outsider thing implied right there, is what I'm thinking.
And maybe Jack yelled at him about it, but Ianto was pissed that he'd never asked, so.
Jack just a bit isolated? But... he was down the pub with the team. And, yeah, pub talk anecdotes aren't exactly the same as quiet chats, but... I don't know. That one scene made it seem like Jack is connected to the team. But Ianto had stayed behind, and apart, on purpose. He wasn't playing their game. He had his own secrets.
So is that personal, or is it tied to some power structure thing?
... Well obviously intensely personal. So I'm wondering if 'and'.
Basically I'm wondering how much Torchwood 1 knew about Jack and how much he's running his own independent fiefdom.
But there's personal stuff with Ianto and Jack too.
I mean, if you read it with a slashy eye, it can look like Jack is in love with Ianto and Ianto hasn't noticed yet. What with the kissing and the significant conversations about love answered only with silence.
There's all sorts of meanings can go in gaps.
/ETA3
Ianto confronting the girl with the big scar on her head... I look back on it and giggle a bit, because Halloween costume much? But at the time I was way too absorbed to giggle.
His total anguish... And not being able to pull the trigger.
Yeah.
"Upgrade together" was what set the team off.
So Ianto remains sympathetic but dangerously spun. I mean, so many ways to feel screwed up about what happened. Feeling responsible.
Two dead people. Both of them people Ianto invited in. He's got to feel like shit about that.
And whatever was left of Lisa... He probably feels responsible for allowing her to be screwed up enough she would do that. I'd spin it that way.
But he's the guy that's so totally loyal to the one he loves he messes up everything else. Classic stuff of tragedy. Not going to lose him any fans.
What it had to say about the nature of love was actually quite complicated. Screwed up all to hell and back, but complicated.
Okay, as I said, not entirely coherent yet.
But that was a very, very good episode.
When it started I was so tired I was feeling a vague sense of unreality (also a side effect of there being so much advertising for the thing - images get so familiar they feel like another ad.)
Now I'm thinking I'll stay up until the second showing.
... this is bad for my sleep cycle, yet very fun.
Also, in case I haven't said, I like the acting. Looks like good acting to me. People doing emotions and everything.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 12:01 am (UTC)*does not read BE's post*
*hits refresh on mininova*
no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 04:56 am (UTC)Early cues to show team bonding with the exception of Ianto.
Classic trapped-in-haunted-house horror setup. Effective, as always.
Conversion table was more silly than terrifying, despite partial conversion incident.
Three kisses of life. Oh so subtle. Thank you, subtle writers.
Plotholes: comms not working when convenient to plot not to work, then working when it is. Unlock device convenience as well.
Ianto has got to be seriously fucked up now. Why are they continuing to use him in that role? Or perhaps there are long-term story plans here.
Tag convention appears to be brief Jack/Gwen conversation.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 11:52 am (UTC)And given that there's 105 steps between the Hub and the surface there was room to put extra layers of rooms up there, so putting it in the basement is deliberate symbol stuff, methinks.
I thought the conversion table was scary. There's metal, and clamps, and many things that cut or drill.
Not that it gives me dentist flashbacks at all...
Comms not working I cease to count as a plot hole, because everyone does it.
But them keeping on going when the comms stop working I count as a Dumb Thing.
Why keep Ianto? What are their options? Murder, mindwipe, or monitoring.
Kicking him out with a head full of knowledge and knowing he's spun? Not safe. Especially since they use partial mindwipe on random civilians to keep their secrets.
Friends close enemies closer says keep him where they can see him. And if he is a friend they care about murder and mindwipe are not nice options.
Plus if Jack likes him then amnesia would be again kinda tragic.
This tag grated much less.
But it still irritates me because it serves to make it a Jack+Gwen show instead of a team, and I like team.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 11:58 pm (UTC)If you mean rapist, conceded. If you actually meant racist, I think I missed something.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-07 09:45 am (UTC)*corrects typo*
if I meant racist at the time I've forgotten why, so I probably meant the thing that actually makes sense, yup