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random thought
Oct. 16th, 2015 12:38 pmWas reading a thing about “transactive memory” , which is where you remember who knows a thing, instead of remembering the thing. Used to be about people in (usually stable configurations of) relationships, like spouses or work groups, now is having interesting application to internet use, because we treat google like that friend who knows the thing.
Was thinking, is often said autistic people have exceptional memory. But maybe it's that we don't have so much of that relationship-memory, the one that keeps memory in other people's heads. Maybe we don't do the social so strong so we remember all the things because this is the only head.
There'd be ways to test for that, right? *ponders*
Was thinking, is often said autistic people have exceptional memory. But maybe it's that we don't have so much of that relationship-memory, the one that keeps memory in other people's heads. Maybe we don't do the social so strong so we remember all the things because this is the only head.
There'd be ways to test for that, right? *ponders*
Social is weird
Apr. 8th, 2015 02:26 amThere's so many layers of assumptions built in to how people interact.
Like, someone says 'lets meet up' and the group is all yaay and they say 'locations?' and then it's pub pub pub.
so I piped up with, basically, 'how about, not alcohol'
I know why grown ups with jobs say evenings for meeting up, but with enough notice maybe afternoons? or evening but with no intention of staying until pub chucking out time?
I don't know, it seems like people raise the bar a lot without really thinking about it. Like, someone has already said about their access needs for wheels, and everyone's taking that into account with venue suggestions so that's cool, but evenings are kind of exhausting for diurnal people, why make everything be in the late late times by default? and dark times means more crime time so it's actually kind of logic to not do things only then? and alcohol venues are not everyone's cup of tea. why are the default settings also the difficult way?
we used to meet for pizza and lemonade, and then that wore off, because not teenagers any more. ... I can't actually eat the pizza any more, because dairy/lactose, and the lemonade gives me epic hiccups, but in basic principle I miss that being the default option.
I have felt for a long time that some of the difficulty autistic people often have in early adulthood is that the rules all change, not even evolve but just jump change, and nobody bothers to mention it, and the new settings are louder and darker and more drunk and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for it.
humans. shall human different. that will work.
in other and not unrelated news, Facebook is a crash crash wtf experience where the buttons don't do what you think and things go and post themselves and there's no delete I can find. stupid stupid stupid.
Like, someone says 'lets meet up' and the group is all yaay and they say 'locations?' and then it's pub pub pub.
so I piped up with, basically, 'how about, not alcohol'
I know why grown ups with jobs say evenings for meeting up, but with enough notice maybe afternoons? or evening but with no intention of staying until pub chucking out time?
I don't know, it seems like people raise the bar a lot without really thinking about it. Like, someone has already said about their access needs for wheels, and everyone's taking that into account with venue suggestions so that's cool, but evenings are kind of exhausting for diurnal people, why make everything be in the late late times by default? and dark times means more crime time so it's actually kind of logic to not do things only then? and alcohol venues are not everyone's cup of tea. why are the default settings also the difficult way?
we used to meet for pizza and lemonade, and then that wore off, because not teenagers any more. ... I can't actually eat the pizza any more, because dairy/lactose, and the lemonade gives me epic hiccups, but in basic principle I miss that being the default option.
I have felt for a long time that some of the difficulty autistic people often have in early adulthood is that the rules all change, not even evolve but just jump change, and nobody bothers to mention it, and the new settings are louder and darker and more drunk and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for it.
humans. shall human different. that will work.
in other and not unrelated news, Facebook is a crash crash wtf experience where the buttons don't do what you think and things go and post themselves and there's no delete I can find. stupid stupid stupid.
One interesting thing about Redemption: I'm pretty sure I met more autistic spectrum people (who said they were) in one weekend, or in one room at some points, than tend to be together at once at the autistic spectrum social groups I went to. I think perhaps we're not great with the getting together to be social if social is the whole point. Go talk about our favourite thing all weekend? Queues! (Except not queues because Redemption is mercifully free of those.) (Just enough people to make a queue, if we happened to all stand in a row.) And there's lots of cons I go to and very strongly suspect many of us are in attendance, but there's things about Red I like in particular.
I like structured discussion groups with a moderator better than I like trying to figure out when to talk in a crowded bar. I no so much like the ones at the end of the day when the distinction is eroded due to copious partaking of bar products. I dislike being interrupted. But I like when the panel person notices I've been interrupted and points at me for my turn again. It makes this whole talking thing much simpler if there's turns and waiting and someone to say who is next.
And topics are awesome. They're part of what makes talking at cons and SF club near infinitely easier than at other venues, because everyone is there for something we can all talk about. ( Read more... )
I hate the idea that I said stupid things and annoyed people, yet I don't tend to recall from one con to the next the times someone was stupid or annoying, because why bother when there were lots of interesting things to recall?
(Plus most of the times I started finding people annoying I counted the hours since my last meal or sleep and thought 'ah' and went back to my room for a bit. It is hard not to keep going until overload when so much *interesting* keeps happening.)
Also if people didn't want to talk to me there were nearly 300 other people to talk to so I think I can assume any conversation they didn't run away from was at least enough interesting to sit still for.
But try telling the other bit of my brain that :eyeroll:
So I think the talking parts of the con are very AS friendly. And how the whole thing is very structured, you can spend all your time doing things that are on a timetable and you can plan them in advance if you want. Or if you don't want you don't have to. And I like that there are disabled rates for paying for the thing and there's lots of other disabled people there and I can be pretty sure if I start telling stories about being stuck on the cold seats because disabled then I will get lots of nods and return stories rather than blank looks and turning backs. I found it welcoming and inclusive, in ways that not all cons are.
Also, I like dancing. There are lots of different sorts of dancing to be doing at Redemption. ( Read more... )
I like dancing with my earrings. I was trying to think of having read anything ever that sounds even vaguely like that statement or what I mean by it, but I'm coming up short, so is maybe not an NT thing to notice. ( Read more... )
At the Dead Dog Party I collected a list of what everyone else thought were the best bits of the weekend. Which, since it was mostly bits I hadn't been to, briefly gave me the :-( But then I realised that means there's more than one excellently awesome convention going on in the same building at once, because I'd had a very happy weekend until it occured to me I'd Missed Stuff, and now I'm feeling happy about the stuff I went to again, which was all good, so there was one full weekend of All Good and then this other set of weekend that was also All Good for the people that did that. Which is really very good going.
I booked for next Redemption before I left this one. I may spend much of the intervening time telling everyone what a good idea that is. Because that was fun.
I like structured discussion groups with a moderator better than I like trying to figure out when to talk in a crowded bar. I no so much like the ones at the end of the day when the distinction is eroded due to copious partaking of bar products. I dislike being interrupted. But I like when the panel person notices I've been interrupted and points at me for my turn again. It makes this whole talking thing much simpler if there's turns and waiting and someone to say who is next.
And topics are awesome. They're part of what makes talking at cons and SF club near infinitely easier than at other venues, because everyone is there for something we can all talk about. ( Read more... )
I hate the idea that I said stupid things and annoyed people, yet I don't tend to recall from one con to the next the times someone was stupid or annoying, because why bother when there were lots of interesting things to recall?
(Plus most of the times I started finding people annoying I counted the hours since my last meal or sleep and thought 'ah' and went back to my room for a bit. It is hard not to keep going until overload when so much *interesting* keeps happening.)
Also if people didn't want to talk to me there were nearly 300 other people to talk to so I think I can assume any conversation they didn't run away from was at least enough interesting to sit still for.
But try telling the other bit of my brain that :eyeroll:
So I think the talking parts of the con are very AS friendly. And how the whole thing is very structured, you can spend all your time doing things that are on a timetable and you can plan them in advance if you want. Or if you don't want you don't have to. And I like that there are disabled rates for paying for the thing and there's lots of other disabled people there and I can be pretty sure if I start telling stories about being stuck on the cold seats because disabled then I will get lots of nods and return stories rather than blank looks and turning backs. I found it welcoming and inclusive, in ways that not all cons are.
Also, I like dancing. There are lots of different sorts of dancing to be doing at Redemption. ( Read more... )
I like dancing with my earrings. I was trying to think of having read anything ever that sounds even vaguely like that statement or what I mean by it, but I'm coming up short, so is maybe not an NT thing to notice. ( Read more... )
At the Dead Dog Party I collected a list of what everyone else thought were the best bits of the weekend. Which, since it was mostly bits I hadn't been to, briefly gave me the :-( But then I realised that means there's more than one excellently awesome convention going on in the same building at once, because I'd had a very happy weekend until it occured to me I'd Missed Stuff, and now I'm feeling happy about the stuff I went to again, which was all good, so there was one full weekend of All Good and then this other set of weekend that was also All Good for the people that did that. Which is really very good going.
I booked for next Redemption before I left this one. I may spend much of the intervening time telling everyone what a good idea that is. Because that was fun.
Christmas for auties
Dec. 18th, 2012 01:04 pmThere's a thing at the Guardian today about making Christmas better for people with learning disabilities, especially autism. Christmas is all New and Improved and Different and More and Sparklier, and that's a whole list of things autistic spectrum people do not in fact consider good things. The sensory overload alone... blergh. ( Read more... )
But, some autistic spectrum people do not like unwrapping presents at all. There's a totally unknown thing in there. It could be anything. Who wants surprise random things? Not them. Chatting at the AS social group someone said about a kid who just has stacks and stacks of presents, like all the years of presents, because they never can unwrap them. What neither of us could understand was why does his family keep wrapping them in the first place! ( Read more... )
So often advice about how to interact with autistic spectrum people is 'autistic spectrum people will not have fun doing things the NT people around them are doing, so try and get them used to it'. :-p Try instead 'autistic spectrum people will not have fun doing things the NT way, so try doing things they actually like'.
But, some autistic spectrum people do not like unwrapping presents at all. There's a totally unknown thing in there. It could be anything. Who wants surprise random things? Not them. Chatting at the AS social group someone said about a kid who just has stacks and stacks of presents, like all the years of presents, because they never can unwrap them. What neither of us could understand was why does his family keep wrapping them in the first place! ( Read more... )
So often advice about how to interact with autistic spectrum people is 'autistic spectrum people will not have fun doing things the NT people around them are doing, so try and get them used to it'. :-p Try instead 'autistic spectrum people will not have fun doing things the NT way, so try doing things they actually like'.
ST:TNG and autism
Oct. 7th, 2010 09:53 pmI watched the first disc of season 2 of Star Trek the Next Generation. I'm still kind of wondering why I loved this show. But I realised a piece of it while watching 'The Outrageous Okona' - I was watching as an autistic spectrum teenager. ( Read more... )
conversation skills
Mar. 2nd, 2007 09:22 pmI have been pondering
and I think my conversations should go a bit more like this:
*listen listen listen*
I hear this thing you said!
I repeat bits back and comment!
I have a shiny thought it makes me think of!
*listen listen listen*
or, and fairly importantly,
*listen listen listen*
I hear your problems
I have much sympathy
I would like to fix them
but cannot think of anything useful.
Have a shiny! They're distracting! Also, fun.
(If not fun, there's always another shiny.)
Still sad? I sad too.
... shiny?
... as it is I tend to skip straight to Shiny! because, you know, in my head it's the same thing. But, um, in the outside my head world it is not the same thing at all, and can rather give the impression I'm not listening.
Especially since problem I can't fix tends to make me go hide instead.
But I'm listening/reading/being very interested really, and only listen/read the people I do because I actually want to (and not, as I may accidentally imply, the people that happen to be around when all the other people went away, because there are actually people but these are the people who are still around and I want to talk to) and I offer shiny much the same way I offer food and drink and small presents, because it's the best I can think of to do.
This is why fandom works better, because if I just bring the shiny, it still kind of mostly works out.
It's the feedback problem, basically. Like, reading and offering the drabble it made you think of is yaay, but, reading and offering *feedback* is much more yaay. And I need to remember that when it is talky words too.
/very obvious
(also, when I mean to say "yaay to see you! see you more is yaay!" then I should not say it in the way that sounds like telling off. Like, "yaay this story part!" is nice but "boo why don't you write quicker" is not. Oops.)
and I think my conversations should go a bit more like this:
*listen listen listen*
I hear this thing you said!
I repeat bits back and comment!
I have a shiny thought it makes me think of!
*listen listen listen*
or, and fairly importantly,
*listen listen listen*
I hear your problems
I have much sympathy
I would like to fix them
but cannot think of anything useful.
Have a shiny! They're distracting! Also, fun.
(If not fun, there's always another shiny.)
Still sad? I sad too.
... shiny?
... as it is I tend to skip straight to Shiny! because, you know, in my head it's the same thing. But, um, in the outside my head world it is not the same thing at all, and can rather give the impression I'm not listening.
Especially since problem I can't fix tends to make me go hide instead.
But I'm listening/reading/being very interested really, and only listen/read the people I do because I actually want to (and not, as I may accidentally imply, the people that happen to be around when all the other people went away, because there are actually people but these are the people who are still around and I want to talk to) and I offer shiny much the same way I offer food and drink and small presents, because it's the best I can think of to do.
This is why fandom works better, because if I just bring the shiny, it still kind of mostly works out.
It's the feedback problem, basically. Like, reading and offering the drabble it made you think of is yaay, but, reading and offering *feedback* is much more yaay. And I need to remember that when it is talky words too.
/very obvious
(also, when I mean to say "yaay to see you! see you more is yaay!" then I should not say it in the way that sounds like telling off. Like, "yaay this story part!" is nice but "boo why don't you write quicker" is not. Oops.)
I find it very reassuring to tell me things I already know. I rewatch episodes in my head a lot. I sit there explaining things to Jack and the Doctor and the Brigadier and whoever else turns up. It makes the world very tidy. Plus I get to control the ending and make it a beginning instead if I want.
Yeah, I spend a lot of time trying to get to sleep.
But the pictures in my head are nice company.
Yeah, I spend a lot of time trying to get to sleep.
But the pictures in my head are nice company.
(no subject)
May. 26th, 2006 11:31 pmHave you ever noticed how some people seem to need to win at conversations?
I'm still working on the whole 'conversation tennis' thing. You say a thing, and then someone else says a thing, and you sort of bat the words around a bit between you. Turn taking is the hard part. I can say things pretty good, its just the catch and throw of other people words that gets tricky.
Some people though, its like they have to win. They thwump the conversation real hard. Nobody replying? Wins!
I don't get it.
Or, people who always answer with a bigger thing. Or making it more complicated. Or sometimes telling you you don't know the thing that you are pretty sure you knew.
Conclusion: not only autistic people could do with a rules sheet.
actually, the online places I interact, they don't do this.
conversations just kind of meander along.
also, its less like tennis, because there's as many balls as people can think of and nobody has to take turns anyway because your turn sits there until eyes get to it, it doesn't have to compete for ears. I like that much better.
there's a lot of differences between 3D interaction and online, and lack of smileys ain't the main thing.
specially since I'm rather bad at smiley interpretation in 3D anyways.
/random again
I think I go sleep again.
Even though I did only wake up at 3pm today.
I'm still working on the whole 'conversation tennis' thing. You say a thing, and then someone else says a thing, and you sort of bat the words around a bit between you. Turn taking is the hard part. I can say things pretty good, its just the catch and throw of other people words that gets tricky.
Some people though, its like they have to win. They thwump the conversation real hard. Nobody replying? Wins!
I don't get it.
Or, people who always answer with a bigger thing. Or making it more complicated. Or sometimes telling you you don't know the thing that you are pretty sure you knew.
Conclusion: not only autistic people could do with a rules sheet.
actually, the online places I interact, they don't do this.
conversations just kind of meander along.
also, its less like tennis, because there's as many balls as people can think of and nobody has to take turns anyway because your turn sits there until eyes get to it, it doesn't have to compete for ears. I like that much better.
there's a lot of differences between 3D interaction and online, and lack of smileys ain't the main thing.
specially since I'm rather bad at smiley interpretation in 3D anyways.
/random again
I think I go sleep again.
Even though I did only wake up at 3pm today.
(no subject)
May. 19th, 2006 12:52 pmI read a
isiscolo.livejournal.com/301625.html
thingy about friending policy on LJ, and it made me think a vaguely unconnected thing, about monolog and dialog.
LJ lets me do the bits of conversation that I'm good at.
I can say the things I want to say, which as anyone with me friended knows adds up to rather a lot of saying in any given day. And I can read the things other people want to say. And, and this is the important bit, there is no particular pressure on me to come up with an appropriate response to any of it.
See I can do talking right up until there are other people involved. I used to get a lot of funny looks, like I was a walking Random Surrealism Generator. Because in my head things connect, but in my words they do not always so much connect. Writing actually helps, because I can quote a bit and then reply to just that bit and that makes it clear which bit I am talking about. But even so, there will be things that make me say a thing that is not so much a reply to that thing. And whenever that happens, I can wander back here to my LJ and say it, and no longer get that RSG blank stare. For things here can be random, and people can be blank about it, but they don't have to stare, or in fact reply at all.
It's like LJ is designed for optimum austism friendly 'interaction', because it is mostly action, but gives the illusion of the 'inter' part because it all ends up on the same page, and sometimes turns into actual conversation in the comment bits.
I like it.
[link made visible April 2022]
isiscolo.livejournal.com/301625.html
thingy about friending policy on LJ, and it made me think a vaguely unconnected thing, about monolog and dialog.
LJ lets me do the bits of conversation that I'm good at.
I can say the things I want to say, which as anyone with me friended knows adds up to rather a lot of saying in any given day. And I can read the things other people want to say. And, and this is the important bit, there is no particular pressure on me to come up with an appropriate response to any of it.
See I can do talking right up until there are other people involved. I used to get a lot of funny looks, like I was a walking Random Surrealism Generator. Because in my head things connect, but in my words they do not always so much connect. Writing actually helps, because I can quote a bit and then reply to just that bit and that makes it clear which bit I am talking about. But even so, there will be things that make me say a thing that is not so much a reply to that thing. And whenever that happens, I can wander back here to my LJ and say it, and no longer get that RSG blank stare. For things here can be random, and people can be blank about it, but they don't have to stare, or in fact reply at all.
It's like LJ is designed for optimum austism friendly 'interaction', because it is mostly action, but gives the illusion of the 'inter' part because it all ends up on the same page, and sometimes turns into actual conversation in the comment bits.
I like it.
[link made visible April 2022]
Just watched the final part of that Monastery thing, with the five guys living like monks. Apparently it was one of the sets of monks who Dad went to school with. Only probably not the same monks, that being long and long ago.
I was thinking about how my Tarot cards keep telling me to go talk to God&Goddess. Which I'd happily do, if I knew how. And I was thinking about vocation, the whole idea of spiritual calling. If you're Christian and you feel a call there are precise organised categories of things you could do about it. Chaos magic, not so much with the organised.
I have to figure out what I want to do, how I want to help, how I want to carry the spiritual aspects of life into all parts of what I do. It isn't easy. ( Read more... )
I'm looking for a superhero team where I can be a part time soul saver and scriptwriter.
And also a polyamorous marriage with lots of interesting hot people involved (though I always run into the problem of why would interesting hot people let me play. not the point. talking wants here.)
Is kind of a tough order to fill though.
Haven't a clue where to start.
( Read more... )
For some reason writing all this took me from headache and nausea and crying through to nice calm sense of progress. Which seems odd because really, is it progress to know I want to live in a comic book? But headache went away. Coolness. Shall be glad.
I was thinking about how my Tarot cards keep telling me to go talk to God&Goddess. Which I'd happily do, if I knew how. And I was thinking about vocation, the whole idea of spiritual calling. If you're Christian and you feel a call there are precise organised categories of things you could do about it. Chaos magic, not so much with the organised.
I have to figure out what I want to do, how I want to help, how I want to carry the spiritual aspects of life into all parts of what I do. It isn't easy. ( Read more... )
I'm looking for a superhero team where I can be a part time soul saver and scriptwriter.
And also a polyamorous marriage with lots of interesting hot people involved (though I always run into the problem of why would interesting hot people let me play. not the point. talking wants here.)
Is kind of a tough order to fill though.
Haven't a clue where to start.
( Read more... )
For some reason writing all this took me from headache and nausea and crying through to nice calm sense of progress. Which seems odd because really, is it progress to know I want to live in a comic book? But headache went away. Coolness. Shall be glad.
Are you normally autistic?
Mar. 8th, 2005 05:27 amAutism Quotient test
Apparently 80% of people diagnosed with an autistic spectrum disorder score over 32.
I got 35 :)
Apparently 80% of people diagnosed with an autistic spectrum disorder score over 32.
I got 35 :)
